Good evening. This is exciting, huh? I'm very happy. I'm Ed Brown. I'm very happy to be here this weekend leading a Zen and Yoga workshop with Eric Schiffman. So I wanted to introduce Eric. We'll each have a few minutes to talk tonight. Eric's going to talk first, and then I'll talk, and then we'll see what time we have left after that, if any. So I wanted to just say a little bit about how I met Eric at something called the Ojai Yoga Crib. They used to have yoga conferences. This is a younger crowd. So, you know, now there's things like yoga cribs. And so Eric's been teaching there the last couple of years, and this last, and it's at

[01:05]

Halloween. And, you know, they don't have a roster or a list of teachers. They have a playlist of teachers. And there's only six teachers. There's not like 20 or 30 teachers like some yoga conferences. So this last October I had a chance to have a class with Eric, and also we did a, I was the moderator for a teacher's panel. So I had such a nice time being with Eric that I wanted to have a weekend like this with him at Tushar, and perhaps we'll do something more in the future. But I very much appreciated Eric's sensibility about yoga and meditation. And so, and it's interesting to me partly because one of, part of Eric's background is in I Anger Yoga, which has this very strong emphasis on form, somewhat similar to the way that people who practice Zen have a strong emphasis on form. So, and then where this has led him and where it's led me, here we are together.

[02:11]

So we thought we'd talk about it tonight. So I will turn it over to you. And away we go. So yeah, what a thing. I was here at Tassajara for an afternoon 25 years ago. This is my first time back. Thank you for having me. I love Ed. We hit it off right away. I like his joy. Thank you. So yeah, I come from the yoga world.

[03:15]

So anything I say will be couched in yoga lingo. Can I just interrupt Eric? Please. No interruptions. You know, Eric says he's from the yoga world, but you see, I think of him as being more of a Buddhist teacher than I am. So I just want to throw that in there and, you know, so that you can go ahead and, you know, without worry. Okay. Okay. So I'll talk yoga lingo. And there's a lot of different kinds of yoga. And depending on who you study with, there's different points of emphasis.

[04:22]

But the big, simple, important, fundamental thought to keep in mind, like, no matter who it's coming from, is that the point of all the practices, the point of the practices, the point of the theory, the exercises, all the philosophy, all the practice, all the philosophy, like, all the stuff is really just aimed at one simple thing, and that's about having the experience. The whole point of all the practices is to have the experience of yoga. Now, the word yoga means union. It's a statement about the way things are. And what it's saying is that there's an underlying, overlying, all-pervading, inseparable connection

[05:41]

between all of us and all of creation. And the idea is, like, the moment you begin to sense into it, even just a little bit, you find yourself coming to life again. And you find yourself beginning to feel inspired rather than depressed, dispirited. And it's really nice to, like, begin to touch into it and feel like, wow, life has meaning. Thank God. Okay, so the point of all the practices is to have the experience. And the main practice is meditation. Meditation is the main practice, meaning it's the main thing that'll help you have the experience.

[06:50]

Now, the way I like to think about or talk about meditation is that it means inner listening. You're learning to listen for guidance from the infinite. As you're walking down the path, as you're rolling out your mat, as you take the sip of water, just like wherever you find yourself being, as you do whatever you find yourself doing, you're listening for guidance about how to be it. The simple idea behind meditation, behind inner listening, and again, this is just the way I talk about it, is like learning to get into a place where you're not thinking quite so much. When you're not thinking quite so much, and you're instead actively listening,

[08:01]

it's like when you actively listen, you'll find that there's less thinking going on in your mind. And when there's less thinking going on in your mind, suddenly there's space for insight to flow in, for the revelations to flow in, for the good answers to flow in. And what you want is the good answers. And so at a certain point, it makes thinking sense to think less and actively listen more. And so it's sort of like using your mind to get into a place where you're thinking less and listening more. And then the practice becomes daring to do as the inner feeling is guiding you to do,

[09:06]

and to follow your heart about what's coming up. Not so easy. You'll often get a hard impulse about something to do, and then your thinking mind comes in and says, I can't do that. What do you mean a weekend in Tassajara? I can't afford that. I don't have the time. You know what I mean? Like reasons about why you can't follow the inner feeling cloud the push. And so more and more it's just becomes about being brave enough to go with the inner feeling and stop coming up with justifications about why you can't. When I was a teenager, I had to go to India.

[10:08]

I had to go to England to meet Krishnamurti and learn yoga. And I couldn't explain to anybody why I had to do that. And if I had only been allowed to go, once I could come up with a good explanation, I never would have gone probably. So the big idea behind all the philosophy, et cetera, is to have the experience, to have a clear hit of the living event. Dare to do as the inner feeling is guiding you to do, whether you can explain it or not. Because if you can't explain it, you can't do it. Explain it later. Be brave enough to follow the flow. Partly because what you begin to experience

[11:12]

is like the more you meditate, the more you just like learn to shut up in your mind and feel the energy. What you discover, luckily, is that the energy is love. You'll be sitting there or walking down the path, paying attention to the living event, and wow, suddenly it's like, whoa, feeling the love. You're like, really? The energy that constitutes you is love, luckily. If you were made out of something unlovely, then as you relaxed and felt the energy

[12:15]

and had a clearer and clearer experience, a clearer experience of reality, you'd start feeling worse and worse. But again, luckily, that's not what happens. And again, once you begin to sense that, the fact that you're loved by the love that is what you are, then the fact that you weren't loved as much as you should have been when you were a kid doesn't matter anymore. You know, like the fact that you didn't get it then doesn't matter now. And if you're still pissed off at your parents for not loving you as much as they should have, then in effect, you're depriving yourself of what's currently available.

[13:15]

I think that is so cool and so monumental and so simple. And you don't have to do anything to become different. You don't have to transform yourself in order to feel it or to be it. You just stay with the now moment, experience it as clearly as you're able, and whoa, lo and behold. And then the cool thing that starts to happen, besides that... You can see it happening in here now,

[14:23]

with like-minded people. It's like the more you feel the oneness, then... as you look out at other people, other people start looking familiar. And it's like the oneness popping up and looking out through here and seeing itself popping up in every little face. It's... It then makes sense to relax, rather than looking out and seeing a world that looks potentially hostile. It's fun to watch that happen.

[15:26]

You look at somebody and it's like, whoa. You recognize yourself in them. Something familiar about them. It's like if you look in a mirror, you see yourself and you go, whoa, yeah, that's me. If you're walking down the street and you catch your reflection in the store window, oh yeah, there's me. And you fix your hair. Same sort of thing starts happening. It's like, wow, wow, wow. And initially the thought is, wow, have I met you before? Maybe I knew you in a past life. And maybe, maybe you did. But really it's like the one self beginning to recognize itself everywhere.

[16:26]

And the more of us that do that, it's going to just spread. What the world needs is people looking out and seeing themselves wherever they look. Looking through the appearance to the reality that's got to be there. Did I go on too long? Just felt like that. Thank you. Do you think that's... Yeah, I feel good about that. But it is fun, especially in a community like this.

[17:40]

Again, a safe context to practice looking at people and going, yeah, [...] yeah. And letting people start looking familiar so that the teachings that happen from the practice begin to infiltrate life. Love. Yes, sir. Love. Love.

[18:58]

Can you talk about how practicing the asanas has helped you bring us to that place of love and reflection? Oh, sure. Easy. And gladly. So the reason for like hatha yoga, like the physical... And again, there's different styles of yoga, but the reason that I like doing the physical practice is that it does help erase all the habitual tensions out of your body so that when you sit down and relax at the end or lie down and relax at the end, instead of your feeling tone being tension-filled, being the normal state, you erase the tensions, and then what's left is like the throbbing, clear feeling of the energy.

[20:05]

And often at the end of class, people will go, wow, I feel good. I just feel good. You know why they're feeling good is because they're erasing the stuff and they're beginning to feel the love that is the fundamental energy. I usually don't say that in class, but I know that if they erase the tension and then stay with their actual now experience, that is what they'll feel. And so the idea is clean yourself out and then stay with the actual event. So it erases the stuff. And when this stuff is erased, it's not like nothing's left. What's left is just a clear energy. And it'll just feel so normal. You'll think, what was all the fuss about?

[21:09]

I should say something, too. What are we talking about here? Let me listen about that. I can say something. I feel so, you know, relaxed and happy listening to Eric talk. So it's a little hard for me to... I don't know what to say, but... It's a little hard for me to remember what they might have been. I'm warm all over. And I'm not used to talking from this place. I don't know.

[22:42]

Well... I was going to... So I guess I'll go back and tell you some of the things I was going to tell you about when I was thinking about tonight. I do find it quite interesting because my experience in practicing Zen, I tried to do what I was told for so long. You know, I tried to get it right so that I could do Zazen right, you know. So I could be recognized as being a good Zen student. And it never worked. It always seemed to me like other people were better Zen students

[23:42]

or they were better at doing it right or something like this. For one thing, for many years, I couldn't even sit still. You know, I was having involuntary movements in Zazen. I think that comes from trying to do it right. No, we don't do drugs here at Tathagara. No, we don't do drugs here at Tathagara. So it took me a fair amount of... It took me a long time to kind of come to something similar to what Eric's been talking about of working with enough of your own obstacles and hindrances to come to a place where you finally allow the energy of your being and your body to manifest and to actually be in your body and be you

[24:44]

and manifest yourself, express yourself fully. I used to... One of the things that happened, for instance, you know, I was... One day I was sitting... I thought I was sitting very good. I was sitting quite straight. And all of a sudden my back went like slumped. And I said, no, this is Zazen. No, it's not. Yes, it is. I don't care. It's spiritual. So what? Yes. No. Yes. No. And so I was sitting there and finally I said, all right, have it your way. And after a while, you know, there was like a little voice like Eric was mentioning, you know, if you listen that said, couldn't we sit up a little bit? And so then I thought I would, instead of trying to do meditation, starting with my head that had the right idea of how to do it and then tell my body how to do it according to that idea so that it would be right

[25:48]

and so that I would get approval and recognition. I thought, why don't I ask my pelvis, my hips, my back where would like to sit? What a concept. So I checked it out. You know, is this good? No. A little bit more. A little bit. How's that? That's nice. Thank you. And we have this kind of intelligence in our being. You know, if we actually ask our body, our being what's comfortable? What's easy? What's energizing? And then, you know, we can go forward in our lives and we go forward with our life and without letting go of the ideas we had about how to do it. And I also found, you know, little by little

[26:51]

I found that, you know, one day I noticed I was just breathing the breath was in the front of my body and I thought, huh, why wouldn't it be in the back too? Why wouldn't, why would I, and it was again, it was an idea I had that when you sit in meditation, you keep your back straight and then the breath is just in the front and you have this straight back. And then I thought, well, why wouldn't the back be breathing too? That makes sense, doesn't it? And it's funny how we have these ideas that we don't notice until we start doing something like meditation or yoga and then we realize something about the limitations that we've had for ourselves and our bodies. And I also found eventually that I was keeping my pelvis completely firm so I would have something to sit on. No breath there. And the first time I found the exhale completely letting go of my pelvis

[27:58]

I thought, oh my God, I'm going to fall right through the cushion. But it turns out you're sitting on the cushion then rather than on your pelvis. And rather than thinking you need to, rather than my thinking I need to have my pelvis completely tight so I have something to sit on, I found that I could actually sit on the cushion. Eric has this wonderful expression, what is it? Wiggle down? Snuggle down? Wobble down? Wriggle. Merge? Merge, wriggle down, snuggle down onto your cushion. So it's interesting that we start with these forms and then actually it turns out that our body has intelligence and can find something very close to the forms. But the form is very useful for helping us get to that,

[28:59]

finding our own body within the practice. Our own body, our own being, our own intelligence which isn't even ours, it's something from beyond. Well, something from beyond, let's leave it at that. Or one mind, one consciousness. So, as I've told, some of you have heard me say, after I had been at Zen Center for 20 years, or 19 years, I was the head resident teacher here at Tassajara and I'd spent those 19 years becoming a successful Zen student and I was now the resident teacher here at Tassajara. And one day I was sitting in meditation up here and I thought, what will I do today? Well, you know, like, shouldn't I be doing something?

[30:02]

Like practicing something? Like, you know, accomplishing something? And I thought to myself, this thought just arose, oh, why don't I touch what's inside with some warmth and kindness? And right away the tears just started flowing down my face. And a little voice said, oh, it's about time. So I was wondering, is this the right thing to do in meditation? You know, to be yourself, to experience yourself? And so I went to see Kadagiri Roshi, who was the interim abbot at the time, and I told him about this and I said, is this okay? Is this Zen? Is this Zazen? Just feeling what's inside? Is that okay? Is that permitted? It's amazing how long it takes.

[31:05]

And he said, Ed, for 20 years I tried to do the Zazen of Dogen before I realized there was no such thing. And I thought, right on schedule. So, you know, in some ways that makes practice much easier, that you can be yourself. And on the other hand, you know, it can be very challenging just to experience what's inside and to experience both, you know, the love or the warmth, the good-heartedness, and also the kind of feelings that we, you know, for me anyway, many intense feelings. So it's been a time to struggle for me.

[32:10]

I seem to have feelings that are very intense compared to... When I look around, people seem to be getting along in their lives. But it's also something to do with this, you know, Eric is mentioning. And I appreciate, you know, hearing, you know, something like the energy, the fundamental energy of our being is love. The fundamental, and whether we say love or in Buddhism, you know, we're more likely to use the word compassion. Fundamental nature of consciousness is compassionate, is wise. You can listen and be still. And know. So I think many people over the years, you know,

[33:39]

friends that I talk to, you know, we share this kind of experience of having tried very hard to do something exactly according to some idea that we've had. And then at some point we realized, you know, And we can be, as Eric suggests, you know, brave. And be ourself. And it's one of my favorite expressions of Suzuki Rishi, When you are you, Zen is Zen. Which is rather different than when you get to be impeccable and perfect and masterful. Then you will have accomplished Zen. But when you are you, Zen is Zen. And it is a kind of, it is kind of brave. And it is also letting go of the various ideas we might have had of the way we might be.

[34:43]

For me it's meant, you know, I realized at some point that I've spent a long time there trying to be the person that would finally gain my parents' approval. You know, no complaints, no whining. You know, don't cause any problems, don't cause any difficulty. Be loving, be generous, be kind. And they're not even around anymore. And maybe, you know, I could trust my own heart and good heartedness and the warmth and compassion and love that's in me to come forward. And so this is what's happened. Years ago, actually, it was interesting when I was working in the kitchen, you know, and at one point there was a big revolt.

[35:45]

Because I was the head cook and I thought as the head cook you tell everybody what to do. And so that we had a big meeting. And the director was there and all the kitchen staff was there and so then they proceeded to tell me that, you know, one woman said, you treat us just the way you treat the bread. And then she said, oh no, you really love the bread. You can tell that when you make bread you're really loving that bread dough and you're very kind to it. You treat us worse than you treat the bread. And another woman said, you treat us just like a spatula in your hand. And, you know, we have taste. And, you know, we can taste and we can do more things in the kitchen, but you won't let us. You know, you decide everything.

[36:47]

And so this went on for a while. And then the director said to me, so Ed, would you, are you willing to change the way you do this job or would you like another job? And I said, you know, I don't know any other way to do it, but I'll try. And I went outside. I was outside over by the bottom of the steps there, coming down from the upper road there. And I was sitting and it was a sunny day and I was sitting out there and I think I was sitting there crying. And I was crying and some of you may know the name Trudy Dixon, but Trudy Dixon was the woman who was the main editor of Zen Mind Beginner's Mind. And she had cancer. And she didn't have, you know, very long to live at that point. And she stopped to talk to me and she said, well, what's wrong?

[37:50]

So I told her about this meeting and how I didn't know what to do. And she said, I have faith in you. And I said, you know, I don't, I don't see how you could. And she said, I have faith in you. This is like, I think what Eric is saying about, you know, seeing in somebody else, you know, that, that kind of spirit. I have faith in people in this room, people at Zen Center and people who come to Dasara. And we can, you know, we can have confidence in ourself to be ourself and to realize our connection with beings, with all beings.

[38:53]

Yes. Thank you. So it's about the end of the evening, huh? Do you want to ho or should we ho? Yeah, let's ho. Okay. So we're going to ho. Just to send some good energy out into the world and to share the energy in the room. Ho is the Japanese word for Dharma. So let's just ho for a minute or so and, you know, and let the sound resonate through you and, and wash through the room and out into the world in our good spirit, good heartedness, love. Ho. Ho.

[40:24]

Ho. [...] Blessings. Thank you. So it's the time of the evening when we try to be quiet outside here. And those of you helping to move furniture, if you can move things carefully rather than, you know, sliding them across the floor as quietly, you know, move the furniture and rearrange the dining room. Those of you who stayed, thank you. Thank you, everybody.

[41:27]

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