...10 years or more, and then have been out of Zen Center for 6 or 8 or 10 years to come and talk about, what was that all about? Those years they spent at Zen Center, and what was it like being out in the world? Not very many people were interested in the class, but those of us who came had a good time. People, you know, would rather come and listen to an important teacher, tell them what it's really all about, than their friends. Or you know, in a certain sense, people who have been at Zen Center for 10 or 15 years and then haven't been at Zen Center for 8 or 10 years, well, they're dropouts. I guess they didn't last.

[01:06]

Anyway, I don't know why, you know, not so many people were interested, but I thought it would be really interesting that, you know, for instance, one person said, the other day he had been driving to work and he was listening to a tape of Jack Kornfield talk about Buddhism, and after about 10 minutes he turned it off and asked himself, what does Jack Kornfield know that I don't? And why would Jack Kornfield think that he can tell me how to live my life? Why would I want to listen to Jack Kornfield rather than knowing for myself what to do? And then he said, you know, I work from 10 to 3 because I have a family and I like being with them. So if somebody wants to see me at my work, they come between 10 and 3.

[02:09]

And so on. And he has, he's decided how he wants to live. And then after a while, finally, he said, do you know why I have this kind of confidence living the life I choose to live? It's because I practice Zen, doing what I was told for all those years. This is interesting. Another woman said that she'd had various problems with addiction and alcohol and she came to Zen Center and she thought, it was so beautiful, it was so wonderful. And she said it was like she could put all that stuff in the closet there behind a nice brick wall, put up a nice tanka, and then be a beautiful spiritual person.

[03:13]

She spent, she said, many years looking good, you know, looking spiritual. And then finally after she got out, you know, stopped going to Zen Center, she started going to AA meetings, and she actually found people she could talk to and be friends with. Because people at Zen Center had been busy, you know, practicing. And another person said he liked that, he had spent many years looking good, waiting for somebody to recognize how good he looked. And no one, of course, ever did. It was disappointing. And now he's very successful, has a construction company.

[04:15]

And, you know, he spends his time recognizing people who work for him, appreciating them. And he found that, you know, after all those years at Zen Center of looking good, how nice it was to have a family, and to actually, you know, be in relationships. And although it was difficult and challenging, he found that it was really remarkable, and completely engaging of his life energy, and completely what he wanted to do. How to have a relationship, and how to communicate, you know, how to take care of one another.

[05:25]

So he became quite interested in developing, you know, communication skills. Anyway, all in all, I don't know that we're particularly sure why any of us practice Zen. And the gifts of, you know, what comes from our Zen practice, we don't often know, maybe until years later. The simple thing to say would be, it helps us when we sit Zen, we do become ourselves. I was just remembering today, for instance, Norman Fisher's friend, Alan Liu, who came with Norman to a practice period here. Norman, of course, was one of our abbots, and they came to a practice period somewhere in the 70s there, 72 or 306 or something, and after three months of sitting here, Alan Liu realized what he wanted to do was to be a rabbi.

[06:29]

So he went to rabbinical school, to the Hebrew school, and became a rabbi. Now he has a congregation in San Francisco, and he has a meditation group one or two nights a week to practice Zazen. So on one hand, you know, sometimes we do see, you know, it used to be even more strong, now it's not so prevalent, but it used to be certainly that if somebody left, obviously

[07:34]

they didn't make it up. That's one of the kind of characteristics, of course, of a cult. You know, the easier it is to leave, the less of a cult you are. So I think we've made it a lot easier, and that actually you can come to practice here, and go, and come and practice, and go, and there's much more sense of coming and going, and it's been wonderful, for that matter, this summer to see so many of the former students here come back and stay as doing guest practice or work practice. It didn't always used to be that people felt so welcome to come back and practice here. I guess I, you know, and I'm not exactly sure why I brought this up, all of this I kind of just,

[08:41]

you know, as I was walking up the steps here, I thought, I'll tell you about this. But I think it's easy to get focused in on some practice, whether it's, you know, this week we're doing a zen and yoga workshop, so it's possible to get focused in on some practice and forget what is the spirit, or the feeling, or what it is in our life that we're really interested in, and we try to accomplish some practice. It's effective in some way. And I think this is related to, you know, basic kind of situation in their life where, you know, most of us have been conditioned that, you know, to not be right is to not be loved. If we're not right, we couldn't be loved, and so they spend a lot of time getting it right,

[09:47]

even though zen teachers and yoga teachers say, set aside good and bad, right and wrong, experience directly and live a true life without the criteria of good and bad, right and wrong. And, you know, this is to accept or to believe that there must be outside of us some externally existing authority, authorized, you know, rightness out there. And if we, and if we, you know, perform properly and get it right, somebody will recognize, that's it, you got it right. You must be lovable now. So it's very difficult for us to, and this is, I think, you know, a good reason to practice zen,

[10:50]

or to do yoga, we can actually re-enter our life and re-experiencing things without so much worry about right or wrong. And I often use a particular story to, so some of you have heard my story, but about right and wrong. After a few years of practice, one day I was sitting in the meditation hall and I was such a good student. I sat up very straight. I was like, the only way to do it, you know. Anyway, I was sitting there like this, and all of a sudden I was sitting there like this. No, this, this is the way to do it. This is right. I don't care. Yes. No. Yes. No. I'm pretty certain I was sitting there just going like this. And finally I said, all right, have it your way. And then I was sitting there like this.

[11:55]

And then after a little while, I, you know, there's kind of like a voice in my back that, you know, this really doesn't feel that comfortable. Could we sit up a little bit? And you know, to find the place to sit, there's not actually a right place to sit. And you actually can move your pelvis back and forth. And your back is the one who's the expert about where to sit. You know, your back is the one that knows what a back knows. You're, and you know, all the time our mind is thinking, I know what the right posture is. And then I will get my back to do it. This is called, another word for this is control. You know, we try to control ourself and control others. Because, and get, you know, ourself and others to do what's right. And this kind of, you know, control is also known as, at times as coercion. But actually your back will know very well.

[12:58]

And when we sit, we always, we give the instruction to people to rock from side to side. And to see if you actually can find where a level is, you know, in your hips. Just in your hips from side to side. And you can also then find, you know, pushing your smaller back forward. You know, slumping back. Actually, where is, you know, where does your back feel really good? Really happy. And it's just, that's wonderful. That's a wonderful place for you to be. Let's stay here. But, you know, it's not exactly like let's stay here. But let's do this for a while. Because in a little while we may want to do something else. So, Zen emphasizes this kind of harmonizing body and mind. Not, you know, mind exerting over body some control. But harmonizing or listening very carefully. And, of course, there will be a difference between, you know, what is some true ease

[14:16]

and what is just familiar. And mostly what is familiar is the way we've positioned ourselves for many years. Believing that it's right. And if we were to change it, you know, we're actually, it's kind of dangerous. But we're studying how to actually be in our bodies. And, you know, in this sense, you know, the idea that there's an external pre-existing rightness that you could actually, you know, do and perfect. You know, to do that we actually move out of our bodies. We're not, you know, in touch with what our back feels or wants or wishes or what, you know, how our knees are or the size of our body or our chest. And we just have some idea or standard that we implement. Get into that position. It's the right one to have. And sometimes yoga is taught like this. We're trying to, in our yoga workshop this week, emphasize finding yourself in the posture

[15:21]

and not doing it so intensely that you can't move. And not doing it so intensely that it's where you try to just do it right. But doing it where you can feel what you're doing. And experience and sense where you are in your body and how various parts of your body are, where they are, what they're up to. When you try to get things right, whether it's sitting zen or, you know, conversation or yoga, when you try to get something right, you will already have an idea of what to do. And so you narrow, the way to get it right is to narrow your perception, narrow your mind, make your body stiff, and limit yourself to just doing what's right. You're not going to discover any new way to do it. You're not going to, you know, go with any of those wild inspirations or anything. Just, you know, just do, you know, what you already believe is the right thing.

[16:24]

And zen, you know, Suzuki Roshi said, one of his talks is, in David Chadwick quotes it, you know, in the biography of Suzuki Roshi, not always so, the secret of zen, in three words in English, not always so. There's not actually any right or good thing to stick to. It's not always so. You may think, you know, this is the way. And he said, you Americans love to, you know, go on trips. Today India, tomorrow Tibet, Alaska. You love to travel. You're always seeking for something good, something wonderful, something great. And then if you find it, you try to stick to it. What a beautiful teaching this is. This is a truly real teaching, truly wonderful. Now I have it, I'm going to stick to it.

[17:28]

This is a big danger in zen practice, and he called it sightseeing. Sightseeing zen. Sightseeing zen, you try to find, you know, the best way, and then stick to it because it's right. And this will be like, you know, already knowing the right way to sit. And if you're back to something else, you tell it, no, this is the spiritual thing to do. And then, you know, your back will argue. So this is very interesting, and we actually have a lot of opportunities to find our way,

[18:30]

not sticking to anything, trying things out. And even though there's a form for sitting, actually, you know, there are many little details of exactly how our hips go or just where our back is, how our chest is, how our neck is. And to actually find ourself and to breathe and enjoy our posture, to be kind to our breath, to appreciate, you know, this moment. When we try to get it right, the other thing we do, you know, is we will look at the moment of experience and we will check, is it right yet or not? Is it the one I was looking for or not? And then, no, no, no, not good enough, not a wonderful sight yet. If you say this to yourself over and over again, you know, you will be doing sight

[19:34]

seeing practice and actually, implicitly, you know, you make yourself wrong moment after moment, not good enough, wrong, wrong, wrong. So when will we ever be good enough? So just to, you know, right from the start in Zen practice, we're actually trying to practice appreciating, you know, our own virtue, appreciating the virtue of our being, the virtue of our back, of our breath, and helping it to find its way rather than trying to control it and make it right. So this kind of, you know, so this is, you know, the opposite of sight seeing practice. The opposite of sticking to something is to appreciate and find some, you know, find yourself at home where you are. Suzuki Roshi, of course, also mentioned, you know, he said, you know, we have these robes

[20:48]

and he said you should wear these robes with some, you know, freedom. You know, you don't have to feel limited to wear these cumbersome, awkward, you know, Japanese robes. Then this is the same with, you know, the schedule here. It's the same with, you know, yoga. Do not feel limited within any particular pose. And he said similarly, you know, we should wear our civilization with some ease. Do not be escaping. Do not be caught. Do not be limited by a busy life. To find our composure in this busy life, in this civilization, without trying to escape, without trying to go someplace else, just to live and find our freedom in the midst

[21:55]

of this busyness. To find our ease in the midst of our busyness. So this is possible when we're not trying to get it right and we actually can enjoy the present moment. And not to say it's not good enough yet or not right enough yet. It's not standing. I want to mention briefly, I mention this from time to time, but the sides of the body are very interesting. And, you know, I was noticing it today because I mentioned this this morning in the Satsang instruction for our group, that the sides of the body have a lot to do with connecting with others. But, you know, we don't always feel connection is connection.

[22:58]

In Siddhan Satsang, in the posture of Satsang, if you have your hands this way, your elbows will be out from your sides a little bit. This is hard to do, this posture, actually, and keep your hands like this, you know, against your side. And if you do this, you know, people sometimes feel like, uh-oh, it's, you know, it takes more intention or attention to have your hands here because and then your elbows come away from your sides and you will feel exposed and nervous sometimes. So then we tend to keep our elbows there. But this is interesting, you know, do you want to be, uh, is it when you lift your, when your elbows are lifted, do you feel more connected or do you feel more exposed? And which is right? So if you forget about right, then you can actually lift your arms into this posture

[24:08]

or when you do, you know, we have this posture for standing and the sides of your body for all these postures are a little bit exposed and actually it allows you to connect with others. In yoga today, we were doing many side bending stretches. This side, you know, where the side of the body is completely exposed. So we're not always so used to that. And sometimes we feel, um, you know, we won't always be ready exactly for that. But we're actually, you know, because we may have a habit of, of being defended and feeling like we need to be defended, you know, we keep our elbows down or we may feel it's the right way to do it. We may believe we need to defend ourselves. And we stop exploring what will actually be some useful way to position our body in space

[25:10]

so we connect or so we have vitality, so we have some energy, so we have some wellbeing and we don't feel, you know, pinched and, and, and, uh, beaten down. It's very safe in our life. So yoga seems to be quite good that way to try out, you know, to do any number of postures and poses and all kinds of positions we wouldn't normally, you know, find ourselves in, in our daily life. And the posture of sitting and all the forms we're doing then are in their way, you know, inviting us into, you know, new places and to try out organizing our body in ways we're not necessarily used to. Uh, to be less defended, um, you know, in your life is to have, um, you know, this

[26:25]

is, can be an example of this, you know, to be less defended in your life is actually to have less anxiety. We have anxiety because we defend ourselves. And they say we have to defend ourselves because we have anxiety, but it's the other way around. If you defend yourself, then it's to say you're worrying. And when you stop defending yourself, instead of protecting your flanks, you actually can connect with something. You can connect with others, you can connect with the world, with the sides of your body. It's the same with the heart, of course, that, you know, if you bend your chest a little bit, push down, or, you know, never have your awareness in your heart, or your awareness goes past your heart, and you kind of don't want to touch your heart with your awareness, um, you know, it won't make you very happy.

[27:30]

But we do it, you know, as a kind of defense against heartache, heartbreak, various things that have happened in our life. And just to, actually to re-enter our heart and to touch our heart with our awareness, um, you know, we don't have to feel that way anymore. Uh, so this is also to say, you know, that, um, it's useful to be vulnerable and receptive, uh, in practice, uh, not to, vulnerable is, uh, you know, not knowing, uh, what's right. And to not stick to something, you know, to be vulnerable is you're not sticking to something. If you're not sticking to something, you don't have so much to defend. When you stick to something, you have to defend you're sticking to it. It's right. I'm right. If you're not, if you don't have to, if you don't have something you're sticking to,

[28:37]

you don't have to defend yourself. You don't have, you can be vulnerable and receptive. You can connect with things. You connect with things and people outside of you. You connect within your own being. Your body and mind connect. You connect with your own heart, with your own state. You can stand on your own feet. You know, all the time we walk and we don't necessarily feel supported by the ground. And it's actually possible to study, you know, any of us can study how to be supported by the ground when we walk and let the ground support us. Rather than push the ground away, we can be vulnerable and receive the ground. So, you know, my job in a lecture like this is, you know, not so much to tell you

[29:40]

how to make your life over according to some formula that I have, but just to inspire you or to encourage you in your own life. We're all finding our way. And it's really nice to be at a place like Tampahara where so many good-hearted people are seeking the way and finding the way, realizing the way, manifesting the way. It's very encouraging. And I feel, so I feel supported when I come here because all of you have this kind of intention. So, finally, you know, I want to say that the, you know, Dogen and other people say,

[30:58]

the practice of benefiting others is the total teaching. So, to benefit others is to not be, stick to something, to not be caught up in right and wrong, so that we try to make other people behave a certain way. We leave them their freedom to behave as they do. So, when we're no longer, you know, sticking to right, you know, we naturally benefit others. Others feel, you know, relief to be around someone who's not, you know, we don't feel forced or controlled by them. I worry, you know, I keep thinking maybe I'm doing pretty well at not controlling others. And then, of course, I find out some way I'm doing that,

[32:00]

that I didn't know about yet, oh well. But anyway, this is a wonderful benefit to others, when we are entering into our life, finding our way, feeling our body, you know, being supported by the family, connecting with others. And no longer depending, you know, what's right and how we're right. It's quite marvelous. And Dogen says, then we notice also how the grasses and trees, the wind and water are reflecting this same teaching. This also benefits others in this study. The wind and the water, the trees and the grasses don't try to tell you how you should be, you know, in order to be right, in order to be wrong. They just let you be who you are. It's that way.

[33:05]

Anyway, thank you very much.

[33:07]

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