Good evening. Well, I've come a long way for this occasion. How about you? Is this on? It is on. It's got that little red light going. Right, right. So what should I tell you about? I'm not sure where I want to start. When in doubt, you have to start someplace. Whether or not it's a good starting place, I'll go ahead and start.

[01:03]

Talks, I find, are a little bit like cooking. If you worry too much about whether it's going to be good enough, you won't be able to cook a thing or say a thing. So at some point, there's no help but to voice something or do something in your life. And not worry too much about whether it's good enough. Anyway, I want to remind you about the beginning of... This week, I thought I'd talk a little bit about one of the chapters of Dōgen, which in Japanese is the Būkansazengi. And in English, that's recommending Zazen to everyone or something like that. So at the beginning of these works by Dōgen is often considered to be the summary of the piece. So the Būkansazengi begins by saying,

[02:10]

The real way circulates everywhere. How could it depend on practice or enlightenment? The essential teaching is fully available. Why would effort be needed? The entire mirror is free of dust. Why take steps to polish it? Nothing is separate from this very place. Why turn it away? So, this is a religious problem for whether you're a Christian or Buddhist or anybody. It's like saying, if there is a God, how come there's suffering? Or how come there's wars? Where is there some place that God couldn't be?

[03:12]

Christians have to be able to explain this. I don't know exactly how they do, but they say this pretty well. I don't know what they say. Maybe some of you know. But the real way circulates everywhere. Where is it that wouldn't be the real way? And how could your life be something other than the real way? Do you think that it's possible to have a life which isn't your real way? The real way and your way, that's the real way. Your life is the real way. Big reassurance. It should be, you know. So, how could practice like sitting darshan or enlightenment be of any help one way or another? The real way is circulating everywhere freely.

[04:20]

That's the problem. And the essential teaching is freely and fully available. Buddhism says, you know, sometimes the essential teaching is impermanent. You've probably noticed that. You know, and you've probably noticed that things hurt now and again most of the time. So, is there some teaching that's lacking? It's there all the time, so how could any effort be needed? The teaching is there, you know, without your effort. And in fact, the more you make effort, and a lot of times, you know, the more you're efforting, the less you'll be observing or sensing or experiencing. You'll be too busy making effort to be noticing much.

[05:26]

The same is true, you know, if you're concentrating on doing the right thing. If you're busy getting it right, you won't be able to notice much. And the entire mirror, you know, the mirror is used for your mind. The mind is like a mirror, and the mirror is free of dust. You know, this is a little different than sometimes in Buddhism. It's explained that the mirror is covered with dust, and you need to clean it so that it reflects clearly. So, this is a little debate in Buddhism, right? Is your mind already free of dust, or do you need to clean it? Which is it? So, here, Dogen says the entire mirror is free of dust. Why would you take steps to polish it? You know, sometimes Zen teachers say, there's a Japanese Zen teacher who said, for 30 years, I tried to sweep away the dust.

[06:32]

And then I noticed that the sweeping was stirring up more dust. You know, this was actually kind of obscuring things. The sweeping is actually creating more dust. So, now that I've stopped sweeping, I can experience something new and fresh. And, you know, nothing is separate from here. Why carry it away? Why go anywhere? Why do anything? Everything is here. And then, you know, the next line is a little... you know, not exactly obvious what is meant, but it says,

[07:39]

but if you miss the mark by even a strand of hair, it's as distant as heaven from earth. So, whatever it is, you know, to miss the mark. But partly that means, like, now, you know, you may not believe that the real way circulates everywhere. You might think, oh no, my life doesn't... this isn't... my life isn't the real way. Or you might think, you know, the mirror needs some dusting. You might believe that. Anyway. All in all, I think, you know, it's to say, you know, let's have some confidence in our life. That it's already, you know, the way. That this is the... there's not some, you know, Buddhist freeway that you get on, you know, and then you can go really fast

[08:42]

and you don't have to go through all the little towns and come to all the stop signs and stop lights. Do you know all those little towns? Confusion, blame, fear, anger. There's a lot of little towns that will stop you along the way. So there's no Buddhist freeway. And so actually your path, your life, with all its difficulty, is the path. You all come through all these little towns. So I've arrived here and it kind of turned out that... I mean, I didn't know when I agreed to come here, right? That you were going to be having a... Have you thought of a name for it yet? You know, a kind of form revival or, you know, reformation? Or, you know, that you would be changing the way that you do things

[09:43]

and having new forms, you know, and then we'll have a little chant before the lecture. Did you know you were going to be doing that? Anyway, I didn't know you were going to be doing that when I agreed to come here. And now it turns out I'm the apostle of... the new way to do things, you see. So I may be either a really terrible person to be doing this or a really terrific person to be doing this because, personally, I'm not especially interested in forms one way or another. I've never been particularly big on the forms. And here I am, you know, I'm supposed to pass them out to you. So... I do wear these robes, though. And speaking of which, you know, I don't recommend it especially. You know, it's kind of hot. And, you know, it depends what country, you know, the robes come from. But, you know, this is the original Indian robe. You know, so if you're an Indian, you just wear the one robe. But, you know, then the Chinese got hold of it and they added this one and then the Japanese got hold of it and they added this one.

[10:43]

So now it's four layers, you know, regardless of the temperature. And then you can put more on underneath when it's cold. That's if, you know, you're an American, you know. Some places, same robes, you know, winter and summer. But that's another story. Anyway, so... If you're at Tassajara and we don't have air conditioning, you know, then you get to sweat a lot. And so I don't go to, like, Indian sweat lodge practices. I figure I've done enough sweat lodge practice in my life. I don't need to do more of those things. We had an event at Tassajara. Oh, about five years ago. Or five years ago. I can't remember. Maybe it was more. Maybe it was 91. I guess it was 91. And all these Japanese priests came, about 25 or 30 Japanese priests. And it's especially bad when all these people come. And then we asked the person who was going to be giving the dharma talks

[11:45]

what time he wanted to do it. And he said, 2 o'clock. And we said, that's the hottest time of the day. You know, when it was over 100 degrees outside. And wouldn't it be better, you know, to do it at another time because at 2 o'clock people will have trouble. It'll be very hot and they'll be falling asleep. And he said, 2 o'clock, lecture. So, I don't know how the Japanese do it, but they don't seem to sweat. They just sit there. And I could hardly breathe after a while. And then when you get up, there's this hole, you know, on the sabotage. You know, where the sweat is just soaked through all the robes. You know, one or two layers underneath here is all wet. So, this is for your benefit, you know, or your enlightenment or something. In other words, Buddhist way. Life goes on. And, you know, I don't live at Zen Center. So, and part of the reason I don't live at Zen Center, I mean, there's a lot of reasons.

[12:50]

One is, I mean, I lived at Zen Center for, you know, 18 or 20 years. And so, I had a lot of experience of form. And rules. And, you know, the way things are done. And then at some point, you know, there's also politics. And, you know, there's a lot of things going on in a big group. And, so it's hard to know why I left Zen Center. But I left Zen Center partly to be able to fall apart in peace and quiet. You know, rather than in front of other people. It's one of the mysteries of Zen practice. Like, if you're sitting here, do you get to cry while you're sitting? Or do you, or what? You know, and if it's really okay to cry, why aren't there boxes of Kleenexes out here in Zen? This is, my girlfriend Patricia says, well, I tell her, it's all right to cry in the meditation hall.

[13:51]

She says, well, if it's really okay, why aren't there boxes of Kleenex? If you go to a fastener retreat, they have boxes of Kleenex. Anyway, it's a mystery, you know, like, where do you get to fall apart? Because if you don't get to fall apart, how can you, how can you actually go forward? Anyway. But there are a few things I want to tell you about forms, okay? And this is just the beginning. We'll just barely touch on it. But first of all, I want you to know that there actually isn't, nobody knows what the form is. So, you know, like, you get to, I have to read all your chant things, because they're all different than the chants we do in California, you know? And then you get, you know, like a new meal chant, and then, you know, if I go back to Tassara almost every year, something's changed. Somebody's decided there's some new, better translation, and this is more accurate than that one.

[14:52]

And, you know, it doesn't matter whether you like the old one or not, now there's a new one. And, you know, some people are meeting someplace for hours to figure this stuff out. You know, and some people like going to those meetings, apparently. I mean, they like it enough where they're willing, anyway, to go to those meetings, and have to step out and decide these things, you know? And which bell is when, and, you know. And, you know, I'm not interested, and I go back to Tassara each year in the summer, and then, you know, it's new, and it's different. They have a new chant, and they have new little things. It's quite interesting. So I just kind of go along with the next thing that comes up. But certain things I refuse to worry about. Like, I do orioke. If you watch me, you know, when I do orioke, this is 1967 orioke. I'm not going to change the way I do orioke. I don't care whether there's a new official way it's done or not.

[15:55]

I'm doing the 1967 orioke. So please forgive me if it's not, you know, the real way it's supposed to be done in 1998. But I consider orioke, you know, to be the revenge of the Japanese for losing the Second World War. And that they've licked it on us, you know, to get back at us. I mean, it's a very sweet idea to, you know, to set out your goals and wash them and clean them. You know, it's all part of the meal. You know, it's a terrific concept. But then all the fastidiousness of it and the exactingness of it, you know, is a little beyond me. But I know 1967 orioke. So anyway, these things keep changing even if you're at the Zen Center.

[16:59]

And it's just what somebody decided, you know. And then partly it's just like, well, then we can all get along together and we can all go along with it. And then it sort of makes things work. But you see, I'm not actually interested in that. You know, I have a little sitting group. One night a week we meet. And ten of us went down to Tassara. Tassara this year had Sangha Week. It was in May. And you could go down and during Sangha Week, if you were a member of a Sangha someplace, you could go for $50 a night instead of the usual $80 or $90 a night. You got this special rate. And then we had talks and lectures and meetings for people who were at Sangha Week. So one morning we had introductions and people would say what their practice was. And then they'd say something. And then they'd say their name and which Sangha they were from. Well, everybody else was from like the Santa Cruz Sangha. And then my group, you know, my group, everybody in my group, all ten people, they had a different name for my group. This is how, what little form we have.

[18:07]

We don't even have a name for my group. So some people said they were from Ed Brown's Sangha. And then there was the Thursday Night Sangha. And then there was Ed Brown's Thursday Night No Name Sangha. And then there was the Teddy Bear Sangha. And then there was the Sofa Sangha. Because a lot of people in my group sit on sofas. And they thought that then there was the Sofa Sangha. And then one woman said, I am from the two dogs bowing to one another Sangha. And the next woman did it like that. So she said, she was from the one cat Sangha. And then the next person after that was from the dogs, cats and people Sangha. So this is how little form that my group has. They don't even have enough form to agree on the name. You know, we've been doing my group for seven or eight or nine years. I don't know how long. We can't even think of a name. And then people later were talking about the problems they have with their groups.

[19:08]

Like, what about raising money? And what about burnout? And, you know, getting people to do these jobs. All these things. And people in my group were kind of looking at each other. What are they talking about? Because we don't do any of those things. We don't have any sender jobs. We don't raise any money. We don't publish a newsletter. You know, we don't... We're not paying for any space. We rent a room at the Unitarian Church for $15 a week. Because we get half price because my mom's a member there. Otherwise it's $15 now and we'd have to pay $30 a week. So we don't have any burnout and we're not, you know, trying to raise any money. And then there was the whole question of forms. How do you teach people the forms? And so forth. And then it seems like we don't have any of those problems. We're formless. But, you know, it turns out that actually formless, of course, is a form.

[20:10]

And some people don't like my group because it's so formless. Some people get to my group and then they go like... Whoa, isn't there something like way... It's difficult for them. It's stressful. And then my group also, they... You know, if I'm giving a talk, then they interrupt me and they say, Well, what about such and such? They just speak right out, you see. They don't wait for me to finish the talk. So I worry sometimes about visitors. You know, coming... Like this week, somebody will be at my group in my place. I wonder if my group will behave or, you know, what will happen. So usually though, everybody seems to have had a good time. You know, I hear later, Oh, we had a great time. The people who have been there said, Oh, they're such good people.

[21:17]

And whatever, you know. So anyway, that's one way to do it, you see. And then... But that's only for certain people because some people, you see, they're also different, right? Some people want to have a forum because if you're not doing something, if you don't have a forum to focus on, what will you do? And then, you know, it's like... Some people, like... If you don't... If you don't have all these sittings and a very difficult schedule, they'll feel like, Well, I'm not kidding you. I need discipline. I need... I want structure. You see? So there are the people who like my group because they don't want structure. And then there are the people who come to my group and they go like, Well, there's not enough structure here. I'm going someplace else. And then they really like it at the Zen Center. You know, and then some people get to the Zen Center and there's still not enough structure. You know, so then you go to

[22:17]

the Zen Mountain Monastery in Mount Tremor. You want structure. You know, that's even more structure. That's where there's somebody... It's a big meditation hall and there's somebody sitting on either side looking down the row. You know, the so-called monitor. Besides the Zen teachers sitting up at the front of the room, there's a monitor on either side and they look down the rows. And then while you're sitting, you know, and you're just sitting and then they say, Stop fidgeting. Didn't know I was fidgeting. And then you hear, Open your eyes. Oh. Well, let's see. Straighten your neck. And then they say, Don't move. See, so... So if you're not getting enough structure,

[23:18]

you know, here or at the Zen Center, you see, there is a place to go. Even in this country. You don't even have to go to Japan for that. And they still walk around with big sticks, too. You know, where... They'll, you know, at least every other period, maybe not every period, but at least every other period, they walk around with a big stick and you can kneel and then they can hit you. You know. There's a nice, formal way to do it, you know. They tap you on the shoulder and, you know, get your head out of the way. Wham. Wham. Yeah, wham. And it's a... That's very awakening. When you get hit, you will, you know, whatever you've had on your mind will drop away. It's really quite terrific, you know, that way. You realize, like, how... how true it is that, you know, you can be free of everything

[24:20]

because when you get hit, it all just disappears. And it takes you a while to find things again. You know, to find you or your body or the world or, you know, remember what you were thinking about or feeling or, you know. And then, and then maybe the first thing you do is like, why the hell did they hit me? And you're thinking of one thing or another. But anyway, for an instant or so, everything drops away. There's this vast space or whatever. Pretty... pretty nice. But we stopped doing that at the Zen Center in San Francisco mostly because it was okay when the Japanese teacher did but when we started hitting each other, it got a little... personal, you know. Anyway, so there is this whole, you know, there is a whole sort of range. And it's always... and the form is then

[25:22]

something that, you know, somebody decides or some group of people decides. So I want to say, though, a little bit about... so while, you know, on one hand, my group happens to be rather formless because, you know, I don't even... you know, we do one chant at my group and it's a one syllable. Ho. Yeah. Ho. Ho. Did you say O or Ho? Ho. No, not Om. It's Ho. Ho is the Japanese word for Dharma. So we just do one continuous Ho for a couple minutes. Ho... and we just all Ho. And then you hit the bell to begin it and you hit the bell you know, after a couple of minutes, hit the bell at the end. Then you don't have to think about, you know, what word is next, or... And you can concentrate just on the quality of the sound, you know,

[26:28]

and joining into the sound, and letting the sound resonate through you, and, you know, receiving the sound, hearing the sound, making the sound, and the sound resonates in your whole body, can vibrate with Ho, and it's another way to let go of everything, because your body, instead of holding on to what it was preoccupied with, is now Ho-ing. When you run out of breath, you join back, you inhale and join back in, because not everybody's breathing at the same time. So it's a continuous Ho sound, and you take turns breathing. But you just continue Ho after you're done. I'm very willing to go in that direction. You want to try that? For the next five days. Just Ho. Just Ho. Is that right?

[27:29]

Yeah. Just go with Ho. So... So we might, you know, we could try that a little bit, but, you know, I also feel a little obligated to Steve, too. To try some of these other things, too, you know. So you get a range of experience. Because, you know, at some point there's a question of, well, you know, what's the important point? Or, you know, what's the true spirit of practice? What's the true spirit of Zen, or practicing Zen? And so one of the ideas is, whatever it is, throw yourself into it. Whether it's Ho, or it's Kanzen, or Namu, Butsu, Yo, Butsu,

[28:31]

throw yourself into it. Why is it that you throw yourself into some things and not into other things? And how do you decide? You know, on what basis do you decide and do you know which is more important, or which is more useful? Or, you know, because you like it more, or you like it less? And how do you make those decisions? And how do you know what you like? And how do you know to trust what you like or don't like? And hasn't trusting what you like and don't like gotten you into trouble all of your life? And so, what about just whatever the next thing is on the schedule, you know, the next event, the next thing, throw yourself into it. If it's time for sitting, you sit. If it's time for walking, you walk. Chanting, you chant. So you don't have to, this is the power, one of the power of form is, nobody, no one person is deciding, well, do the things I like and not the things I don't like.

[29:33]

And then, you know, it's just so, you get, end up with this tradition, and it comes from this whole body of people. And then, you can practice throwing yourself into, so-called throwing yourself into. If you like something, you know, there may be different ways to say that than throwing yourself into it. You could also, you know, practice enjoying your breath or, you know, practice enjoying sitting or you can practice finding yourself at home in the present activity. You know, there are other ways besides just throw yourself into it. That's the kind of Japanese feeling, you know. Gambate! You know, or Geronimo. Throw yourself into it. Disappear, you know, do something so fully that you disappear in the activity. You disappear into the activity.

[30:38]

And you're not deciding, well, I think I'll disappear into this one, I'm not going to disappear into that one. Because once you start doing that, you won't be able to disappear into anything. Because the way our life works is you're either all the time disappearing into your activity, all the time waiting like, well, I'm not sure this is one I want to disappear into. And by the time you decide, it is one I want to disappear into, you're so practiced at not being sure whether to disappear into it, how are you going to be able to do it? You're so awkward at it now. Because you spend so much time going like, well, is this the one that's really worth disappearing into? So, and then the other thing about it, of course, the basic problem in Buddhism, as it's pointed out, is even if once in a while there's something you really can disappear into, you know, you do art or music or, you know, make love or something where you feel like you can disappear into it,

[31:39]

you're not going to be able to do that all the time. Sorry. And you're not going to be able to organize your life so you just have the things that are there the next moment that, you know, are something you feel good about disappearing into. So how are you going to be able to be present unless you just practice being present with the next thing, with the thing that's in this moment? And so the forms are something that you can just practice disappearing into. Taking on that form just as a practice. That's why we call it practice. In one degree. You disappear, you practice disappearing into the form. And it's not something you pick out or, you know, somebody else picks out. It's just that, and so it's not, it's not about, you know, whether the thing itself exactly makes sense. It's about practicing being present and being able to take different shapes and forms rather than just like,

[32:41]

well, I'll take this shape, but, you know, and form, but I won't take that one and not, you know, as long as I don't have to open my mouth, it's okay. If I have to chant, I don't know. And if you just keep deciding like that, it's very hard to disappear into much of anything. Because then you always will be questioned. This is a big problem. It's kind of like, is this moment worth being present for? And if you have to decide, the moment's gone by the time you decided whether or not it's worth being present for. So this is part of the sort of spirit of Zen is to, however you want to say it, you know, disappear, do something holy enough that you disappear in the form of, throw yourself into the activity in such a way that you don't have to

[33:44]

disappear, you know, into something means you're not busy thinking about how well you're doing it or not doing it or whether it's worth doing or not doing or if you're doing it better than somebody else or worse than somebody else. Because you've disappeared into it means you're not thinking about those things. If you're thinking about those things, you haven't disappeared into it. If you're wondering, like, is this worth disappearing into? I'm doing it, I can't do this, other people can. If you're comparing yourself, if you're thinking about it, this is not disappearing, this is not doing something fully, so fully that you disappear. And obviously, you know, there is a slight possibility that you could do that fully enough that you disappear into it. But for most of us, it's pretty difficult. That would be a good argument for a form.

[34:48]

For absolute form, because then you would have no decision to make, you would just be taken by. You couldn't do anything you would want to do. That's right. You don't think about what you want to do or not want to do. And so, you know, there are various stages to practice. It's one of the reasons to leave sense center at some point. You can do what you want, finally. Because, and in fact, you know, people who have been in Tushar for a while, the days off are the most difficult and stressful because you have such a habit of not thinking or considering about what you want to do. And then when it's the day off and you have all this time, where it's up to you what to do, how do I do that now? So people find that very difficult sometimes. The form, yeah, the form drops away?

[35:51]

Yes. The form would drop away and you, you know, the real practice then at some point is not so much about, you know, the form, but about being embedded in your circumstances. In the context of, of the zendo, it's the form of zazen, but in the context of being with the person, it's being with the person and hearing what they say and, you know, responding to what they say and because actually every moment of our life is a form. There's some form. Form isn't just, you know, there's a formal form or the forms in practice, but then every moment there's some form. You know, to have a feeling, there's a particular feeling. To have a thought, there's a particular thought. To be with somebody, you're with somebody. In various circumstances, each circumstance has its form. So if you're going to pick and choose about forms, you won't, you know, you will be willing to be in some forms and not in others. So in that sense also,

[36:52]

the idea of practice, you know, it's often said, if when you finish practicing the meditation at all and you don't want to go back to your life, now you're sticking to the form of the zendo or you're, you know, sometimes they say that's being sticking to emptiness because you don't want to take on the form of, you know, traffic and, and business and meeting people and doing stuff and you don't want to be involved in that form. You want this other simple form here because you feel like, oh, yeah, I can do this form. What's that other stuff? Oh, you know, that's too worldly. So you think, like, I'm not going to get involved in those forms. And then, you know, so that's some, you know, good practice too to be, to go into those forms. You let go of those forms, you know, because we have the limitations of a whole lifetime of how we get involved in them. So you can kind of separate yourself from the forms of your life and do something simple here

[37:56]

in simple forms, basically simple forms. It's not so complicated as having to talk to people, for instance. You know, to be silent. How long am I supposed to talk? Now. Isn't it about to end? Yes, it is. Yeah. Stick to the form. Well. I do want to say, I guess I'll mention one other thing. I want to bring up for you the, you know, this insane all of you have reached the top of a hundred-foot pole. You're familiar with this thing? It's a kind of koan, you know. All of you have reached the top of a hundred-foot pole,

[38:57]

now it's time to jump off. In practice, in some ways, it's about jumping off a hundred-foot pole. One way, and the hundred-foot pole is something to do with who, how you, you know, who you are now and what you believe and how you understand things and what the world is like. Can you trust people? Can you trust the world? Are people supportive? Are they not supportive? Is there anything you can depend on? And, you know, all of us have come to some conclusion, do people like you? What kind of person are you? Are you shy? Are you angry? Do you have some problems? How do you know that? What's the evidence? And mostly, you know, we decide in a pretty young age, you know, we get the answers to all these things

[39:58]

at a pretty young age and then we try to, you know, not to notice anything that would change our mind. Because it would be rather painful and embarrassing to admit that maybe we're wrong about something than you believe for 30 or 40 or 60 years. So, you know, if you decided pretty early on I'm not very likable, then you can look around and somebody seems to like you. Well, they just like everybody. It doesn't count. They're just pretending. They just are like acting like they like me doesn't mean they really like me. They just don't know me well enough. If they knew me better, they would realize what there was not to like. So no matter what happens, basically you can go on thinking people don't like me. And the example of the contrary,

[41:00]

you can rationalize why that's actually not true. And actually, you know, Zen says, you know, whether you say leap off the pole or you say produce a thought which is unsupported by any evidence. So, for instance, the thought that you're also that you are an ordinary being and you're a Buddha or you're already enlightened. Is there any evidence for that? Do you have a lot of evidence that you're already enlightened? See, most of us we have, like, well, I don't have any evidence for that. But actually you will refuse to look at any evidence that doesn't support what you already believe. I'm an ignorant, deluded, sentient being. So one way or another, you know, either you have to leap off the pole or produce a thought unsupported by sight, sound, smells, taste, touch, Dharma, unsupported by Dharma, unsupported by no Dharma. You know, it's an unsupported thought

[42:02]

that people like you or that you're Buddha or that you're enlightened. There's no evidence for any of this. But you think, oh, I've got the evidence and then you keep looking at things. You know, we keep looking at things and we find the evidence for what we already believe and we discount the evidence that would change our belief. So this is also part of the power of form. You know, form is a way to leap off the pole because you can get out there and involve in something in a way that the world is different. When you involve yourself immediately physically and, you know, powerfully in the experience in the moment, the world is different. It's a different world. You're a different person. But all the time

[43:08]

you're going where you ain't been. But this seems like where I've been before and if it doesn't seem like where I've been before, I will make it that way. Yeah, but this is exactly right. This is a question, you know, which is which. It does seem like, you know, so both are true. And then at some point it's a matter of language. You know, how do you get outside then? How do you get out of your own language? Out of your own description? Is your life as it's been and it seems like, it seems like, you know, it's within some parameters. It seems like, in fact, you're saying like, well, yeah, I'm, it feels to me like I'm on the top of a hundred foot pole. It doesn't feel like

[44:10]

the teaching is everywhere. I need to jump off. And yet, to be on the top of a hundred foot pole is also, you know, is also in the midst of some vast reality that the teaching circulated freely, but I'm viewing it or experiencing it as though it's the top of a hundred foot pole. So for this reason actually, Siddharisha said, the pole goes infinitely down and infinitely up. But anyway, this is, this is, you know, the challenge for us, in fact. To, to have some sense of the essential teaching, you know, is freely available. The real way circulates everywhere, everywhere. And yet, I'm experiencing it as though, I'm experiencing my life as though I'm the same person and I'm stuck or I'm this or I'm that. Why do we keep seeing it that way? Can we have, you know,

[45:10]

can we let go of our belief long enough to and be Good morning. Good morning. How's life on the slow lane? On the slow lane? Yeah, on the slow lane. Isn't this the slow lane? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, as opposed to racing around here and there, getting things done. I don't know, it feels pretty racy. It feels pretty racy? Yeah. Maybe you should go to like a Zen center. People have been telling me that for years now. They say, well, if we didn't know you, we'd suggest you go to a Zen monastery. But you've already tried that. Well, life is interesting,

[46:13]

isn't it? I have to, I don't have to, but I'm going to compose myself to see which, you know, decide, you know, which personality to bequeath you with this morning to share with you. I discovered, this is reminding me, you see, I discovered recently that I have actually a hard time being an authority. But I recently discovered, you know, how to do it. So I'm going to give you an example. You see, partly it's the back of your neck, you know. If you bend your head back a little bit, this is how you kind of shut yourself down before this can. And it's a way to,

[47:15]

like, you know, sabotage your own power. And when you lengthen the back of your neck, see, so here, I'll give you an example. Here's my copy. I didn't get any copy yet. I was busy in high-level discussions, which I'm going to tell you about. Thank you. So, I've been realizing, for instance, you see, you know, the way that Buddhism works, Buddhism is not about actually doing something Buddhist. You do understand this, right? We're not trying to become good Buddhists, we're trying to become ourselves, or realize ourselves, or awaken, you know, ourselves. Now that's different than being a good Buddhist. If you were going to be a good Buddhist, then you would

[48:15]

try to do the Buddhist thing. So, you know, if you are sitting across from somebody and then you think of, what's the Buddhist thing to say? Oh, good morning! Maybe that's a good Buddhist thing, and then, you know, you would have to be careful, like, probably, like, not to get angry, or, you know, say kind words, and, you know, you could go through the various lists and try to come up with the Buddhist behavior, and then you could try to do the Buddhist stuff rather than you. You see, so there's some use to this. This is like a form, right? You could try out forms. But in the long run, we're not trying, we're not aiming to become good Buddhists, we're aiming to become you yourself. Right? So, the way you do that is, first of all, you have to notice, like, what you do do. And that the way

[49:18]

you're doing stuff and that the way things occur in your life, that's you doing it. So, for instance, there's a difference between I was overcome with anger. Did you do that? Well, in a certain sense, you did. You set up yourself in a way that you never get angry, and so if you get angry, you describe it as I was overcome with anger. And I was defenseless or I was powerless, you know, with the anger. And you don't exactly take responsibility for it, then you, you know, you slip aside from the responsibility. When you say, I was overcome with anger. Or, you know, if you get angry and then you say, don't talk to me like that, like, like that's your fault, you know, you know, or somebody, you hear all the time people saying, you made me angry.

[50:19]

You make me angry. You make me mad, you know, you this, you that. And like, you're the victim of the way other people are behaving. How other people behave, then you get victimized by it. You make me sad, you know, or you do this, or you do that. I'm scared of you. So we, we create, we do things in a certain way. So you have to notice how it is you do do it in order, like, to realize you have a choice about doing it differently. If you're not, if you're not acknowledging how you do it in the first place, how can you do it differently? This is true, whether it's Buddhism or psychology, you know, in psychology you say, if you, you don't let go of something without acknowledging it. If you, if you let go, if you try to let go of something without acknowledging it, that's called repression. So,

[51:25]

actually in order to, for your life to change, you have to take responsibility for the way that you're doing it. So, this means that unfortunately you have to acknowledge, like, how judgmental you are and notice, and one way, you know, so all the things that happen in Buddhism, if you, when you take responsibility for it, and you realize, this is the way I do it, oh, I judge a lot, or I think a lot about right and wrong, or how well I'm doing, or how poorly, or how much better they are than I am, or how much I'm, I can't sit as well as they can sit, I'm not getting anywhere, I'm getting somewhere. Oh, so this is what I do, I spend a lot of time with this stuff. Or, I get sad, or I get lonely, or I get angry, or I'm afraid, or, you know, so what is it that happens to you? Okay? And we're not just trying to organize all the circumstances of our life, it's not actually Buddhism to try to organize the circumstances

[52:26]

of your life so you always just have the nice experiences that you want to have. That's called control. And the more you try to control things, as you know, it doesn't work very well, does it? So we're trying to shift from control to compassion. Compassion is receive the way things are. Listen deeply to the way things are, and notice the way things are without judging. Compassion is very similar to mindfulness. Basic, you know, most powerful practice in Buddhism is mindfulness. Mindfulness is to be aware without judging, without criticizing, without trying to fix it, without trying to change it. And we do that so rarely. Because usually as soon as we're aware of something, so basic practice of zazen is can you be aware of something without trying to improve it, fix it, change it,

[53:26]

you know. You don't keep fiddling with it. I'm going to make it better. I'm going to have a more enlightened experience. It will be more Buddhist in the future. It will be more profound. It will be deeper. It will be calmer. It will be more beautiful and magnificent, etc. I'll improve it. So as soon as you have that kind of idea when you're aware of something, how does that make you feel? Usually not very good. Somebody is, you know, not happy. And here are your eyes giving you things to see and your nose giving you things to smell and your ears giving you things to hear and your mind is giving you thoughts and feelings and then you say, but they're not good enough. And pretty soon, you know, then you can be depressed or whatever because you started out saying, well, they're not good enough and you need to come up with something better and if you tell yourself after a while your mind will stop giving you stuff.

[54:27]

Because everything life gives you you say, oh, well, it's not good enough. And pretty soon, of course, you know, there's no separation here. You're not good enough. So basic practice is can you experience anything going on in your life where it's good enough? Or as, you know, we say around Zen Center because it's something to look at, everything is perfect the way it is. So, you know, this is a problem, right? This is, this is why in the, you know, last night I mentioned to you in the Fukan Suzuki Dogen says, the real way circulates everywhere. No, but you want to improve it. Already. You know, right away. And then when we say the real, you know, when we say everything is perfect the way it is, the second part is but there's room for improvement. Or and there's room for improvement. You know, it doesn't, one is not

[55:31]

contradictory to the other. Anyway, basic, so basic sensibility of Buddhism is mindfulness and compassion. To be aware without judging, without fixing, without improving, you know, without trying to make it better and to receive that, you know, with your heart. Let your experience come home to your heart. When you describe it in terms of mindfulness you don't say, you just say to be aware without judging. If you're talking compassion, now your heart gets in there. Because compassion has to do with something that touches your heart. You receive it with your heart. So compassion hears all the cries and the whispers and the pains and the difficulties and the sorrows as well as, you know, the joys and happiness. That's compassion. And you see, that's how different that is from control. Control means

[56:31]

I want it this way, I don't want it that way. It needs to be better. It's not different. So this is a big shift for most of us. You know, from control to compassion. You know, from, you know, trying to fix and improve to just being mindful. And then, your life can change. Because you notice how you do it. You know, if you don't acknowledge, when we don't acknowledge how judgmental we are, how can you stop being judgmental? You don't realize like how you do it. So when you realize how you do do it, then you can not do it. Then you realize like I'm doing this, I can do something else. Then you actually have choice. Choice comes out of your awareness. Choice is, you know, because you're aware

[57:32]

of what happens, then you notice you have choice. Without, without noticing you know, what it is you're doing and you try to have choice, then you, you know, as I say, then you call that repression or, you know, coercion. You're going to do this and you're not going to do that. You will be aware and, you know, you try to tell yourself to be mindful and not do the other things so then you can have denial about doing the other things that aren't the right Buddhist things to do. You can try not to notice them. You know, that would be a way to not notice what you, you know, how you have, you know, the kinds of problems you have or the ways that you do things would be a way that you could, you know, over time, you know, it would be a nice way to kind of fool yourself or hide from yourself the way you do it in order to make yourself look good, at least to yourself and then, of course, you can wonder, like, why don't you look better to other people? They don't seem to acknowledge how good you look to yourself.

[58:33]

You know, they don't see it that way too. Anyway. So this is to say something about, you know, how change occurs and this is basic Buddhism. Now, I always mention all this to you. Actually, this is just a background ride too. I started to explain to you, you know, recently I've been noticing, like, people were saying to me, what? What did you say? See, now, when I get in a lecture situation like this, I feel a lot of permission and I feel like, well, you must be here to hear what I have to say and it's on the schedule and you've invited me to give a talk so then I go ahead and talk. But a lot of the time, otherwise people say, I'm going around and then I find myself in a lot of situations where people say, what? What did you say? And I realize the reason that, the reason for that is because I actually have

[59:34]

an underlying belief nobody wants to hear what I have to say. It's like, you know, and then that's the reason That sort of thing is very old, right? When did I decide that? Then how often did you hear, nobody wants to hear what you have to say, young man. Or, keep it to yourself. Or, if you can't, you know, say something nice, don't say it. When you're ready to be social, you can come out of your room. When I was about four, I was living in an apartment in an orphanage and then the woman said to me, if you say that one more time, you know, you're going to wash your mouth out with soap. So, I said the wrong thing one more time. I don't even remember what it was. It was probably some, you know, swear. What do you call those words? Profanity. Some kind of profanity, obscenity. And I didn't know

[60:35]

what it was and then, so, sure enough, I can still remember, you know, having my mouth washed out with soap. I had no idea it would be as bad as it was. And then the taste stays, the taste of the soap stays in your mouth for a long time after. So, I remembered that for a while. So, I'm, I have a whole, you know, so I decided, you know, and most of us, we decide in various ways and for various reasons. You know, basically, it's a kind of survival. You know, how to behave so that we get accepted and cared for and included in the situation we're in growing up. And then, when you get, when we get to be adults, now that's called, you know, a prison. It's a limitation. It's a way of being that was, you know, useful for some period of your life and now it's not but you don't know how to, we don't know how to do it any differently. But the way to do it differently

[61:35]

is not just, to go out and do it differently. You can try but actually you end up being caught by all the same things unless you have some pretty clear insight or experience of what it is you do. So here I am saying, nobody, to myself, nobody wants to hear what I have to say and then the way it comes out is people say, what was that? And then they're actually being interested in what I have to say but I'm still believing they don't really want to hear what I have to say. So a couple weeks ago I decided to change the way I was talking and let people know what was on my mind. It was a whole different persona that went along with it. Now everybody gets to hear what I have to say whether they want to or not. How's that?

[62:44]

And now I notice when I do that, see what happens to my body? My chest lifts up and then the back of my neck gets long and that's just like sitting Zazen. Uh oh. And you want to know like why people don't sit up and Zazen? You're taking on a bunch of stuff. You're a different person as soon as you sit up And it may be that people you know and then a lot of us like me like if anybody like else was to behave like this I would think you know that arrogant ass. Where do they get off thinking they're so important and profound and deep and you know what do they think I really want to hear what they have to say or are they kidding me? And actually the fact that nobody wants to hear what I have to say is very similar to the fact that I don't really want to hear what anybody else has to say either. It's all of a piece.

[63:44]

So if you catch me you know shifting over into my this is my Zen Masterly voice actually the voice of authority this is someone who knows what's what anyway excuse me I'm going to revert to my more typical and then the more you take a you know so you know how you organize yourself and express yourself and how your body is you know you create the whole world and this is not you know this is not you know something esoteric. So first of all I want to tell you I brought my Fuukan Suzuki in here but I don't think we're actually going to get to the Fuukan Suzuki this lecture

[64:49]

I'll have to come back to tonight but I want to talk to you a little bit about a couple things now first of all walking meditation and you know there's a form called Shashu there are certain forms that I really you know think are useful so this one I mean there's things about it that are maybe not so great but there's other things that are pretty useful and important so in Shashu you put your thumb in your left hand and you put your right hand over it and then your hand your hand is straight out off your wrist psychologically if you you know if you do this with your hand that's a way to do no and if you move your hand this way that's a way to do yes what am I good at doing? I'm good

[65:54]

at no and not so good at yes and this way I'm good at no and actually this is also you know if you do this this is no right? that's what the policeman does no stop right? and I have that very hard so and you know if you're going to so here's an example like is it possible for you to say yes and no or do you want to just do one? and actually see if you're going to have so called liberation you would want to be able to say yes and no and actually if you stick to yes or no you know then you're sticking to something if you stick all the time to yes I'm just going to go along with this yes I will actually you end up being passive aggressive

[66:55]

and if you say no all the time how are you ever going to say yes? and feeling you know saying no all the time isn't you know making you happy so to do one or the other and the thing is you know we tend to have a habit of saying yes or no and not either one so anyway Shastu your hand is directly in line with your wrist it's not this way and it's not you know that way so that means you know in order to do that have your hands directly in line with your wrist you know you have to have your arms then your arms are you know going so that your hands can be directly in line with your wrist and now your elbows are away from your sides the sides of your body you know there's various things about the sides of your body but the sides of your body for one thing are your planks and it's so it's like that's an area where

[68:00]

you know we're not so likely to expose ourselves you don't want to leave your planks exposed you can get attacked okay you know you're ready to defend yourself against some stuff in front of you but you know to your side or your back it's like well I better keep my elbows in here and we're used to that you see keeping our elbows on our sides but the other thing about the sides though is this is where you connect or shut yourself off from other people so part of the feeling part of the reason why when you pick your elbows up from your sides part of the reason why you feel vulnerable and exposed is other people are there now is that vulnerable and exposed or is that are you supported by other people who are those other people you know are you going to connect with them or are you going to

[69:01]

be apart from them do you think it's really possible to be apart from them if you have your elbows to your sides it means you're with them but actually you don't trust them and you're already must be connected with them and you must know they're there and that you need to defend yourself against them so already you're connected with them you're just saying yeah I'm connected and they're there but I don't trust them so I better protect my planks I better keep my elbows here and I'll tell you when I first started having my elbows away from my sides I felt terribly afraid so anyway Shashu if you study this you know your hands directly in line with your arms and to do that your elbows have to come away from your sides and you can also then turn the little finger side of your hand you know a little bit away from you that even brings your elbows

[70:01]

out a little bit more this you know in order to do this and you know there are two there's always you know with whatever form there's two sides to form one is are you going to go around doing this so that you're doing it right and not experiencing anything and you muscle you do it by muscle or can you do this with some you know to do it with muscle you do it like this you see the difference this is muscle and then this is you have some relaxed feeling about doing it so actually in Soto Zen we're trying to you know the Soto way in Zen is formal practice with informal mind so in order to do this you don't have to make your mind like you don't have to make your mind as stiff as the posture

[71:01]

you have your mind can be soft even though your posture is a certain form and you you will notice actually something about your sides and this is also you know you're very balanced part of your being balanced is your hands are your hands aren't going this way or this way and you'll have some composure because you know of the posture and then when you walk I don't know how you're doing it but you seem to be going really fast because traditionally you take one step with each breath are you doing one step with each breath? or do you just walk? because traditionally you take one step with each breath as you inhale you step as you exhale you shift your weight inhale step exhale shift your weight so it's actually

[72:03]

fairly slow and most of us don't do this anymore we sort of cheat it because everybody wants to get someplace even for this walking meditation but traditionally actually you only step you know half a foot length ahead of the other step you know so that your your front foot the toes of your other foot are opposite you know the inset the arch of the front foot and then when you step you know now your the arch is up to these toes over the years this seems to have fallen by the by I mean when I'm at Zen Center and I look around I don't see anybody doing this you know these little short steps so I've taken to taking you know somewhat bigger steps but generally and here I've been taking extra steps so I can give you all the people you know like

[73:03]

speeding up on me give them some you know room I feel like maybe I better get over this slope but anyway aside from how big that step is I'd like to formalize it in the sense of you know take one breath with each step and half a step we could try it out but I'll so the next walking period let's do that and I'll remind you we're going to do that we'll try doing half a step in each breath and then maybe we can try anyway doing a step with a breath regardless of how long the step is but it is traditional that you you do organize yourself so you have an even amount of space behind you and in front of you but here that's hard for me to gauge if I'm walking down and I'm in here and I don't get to see where they are behind me and then it's not exactly light in the window anyway

[74:05]

when you're walking and you're doing walking meditation part of the idea of walking meditation is can you put your awareness in your feet okay so awareness in your feet like you can do you know like now if you take your awareness and you can put your awareness in your feet you know what do your feet feel like can you feel your feet and then when your awareness comes away from your feet where does it go or you can take your awareness and have it in your hands and then and then let go of your hands and your awareness has a place where it tends to go usually it's somewhere in the head okay so this is another emphasis of Zen practice of course is that can you have some awareness someplace besides your head and traditionally you know we say settle the self

[75:08]

on the self this is you know Zen to have your awareness in your body instead of in your head so walking especially in walking you awareness in your feet and this is not just you know your body is an expression of consciousness and again we've all organized our bodies you know our bodies are organized around our beliefs so in your life you get support in your life can you do you trust the world what do you think it is when you walk you know you either get support or you don't or you get you know less support or you have more support on the left side less support on the right side

[76:09]

and so when you walk you're actually practicing this is about not just your awareness in your feet but how is it that you know your feet can support you the ground supports your feet you can trust your feet you can trust the ground you can trust your feet to hold you up you can trust the ground to support your feet this is about support and trust and you know being grounded and this is and this is support in every you know place in your life you know do other people support you does the world support you do you have income you know this is this is like everything and you can study that you know walking so you know one way to do it you know if you're being mindful it's like well just to

[77:12]

notice how do your feet touch the ground how does your you know how do your feet receive your weight you know does you know are you are you letting the ground support your foot or what is it that you do when you step this is one of the reasons why this walk is as slow as it is because if you take a normal step in the normal way you will not notice as you normally do not notice any of this you will just say well the world doesn't support me you know and people don't support me I don't trust and they're not trustworthy and it's their fault and they you know they did and they they should be bad but it's how you've organized it too

[78:12]

and the world will take its clues in how you organize itself and so it's something as simple as this walking you know if you start to experience your feet you know the view changes the world changes because you experience your feet and over time you know where your foot you know contacts the ground and doesn't contact the ground as you study it it starts to change and it doesn't change because you know the way to do it if anything it changes because of some aesthetic you have or some wish you have you know I want to I want to know how it feels for the foot or the ground to support me and you can study like what you know is a really pleasing you know satisfying you know uplifting

[79:13]

energizing happy way for your foot to contact the ground and that doesn't mean you you can do it like that every time or you're going to impose that on yourself but that's kind of the direction of actually just feeling your way as you step how does that work well I probably got to the end of my talk now what time is it is it over no what time does it end ten minutes oh I have ten minutes ok now we get to now we get to the lead of the talk you thought that was the lead of the talk well I must say that I didn't realize when I came here that I was coming into the you know the forefront of Zen in America the cutting edge

[80:15]

of Zen in America and you know to start with I heard that you know some of the chants have changed because Taigen somehow Taigen got blamed for a lot of these changes well now it turns out then I you know the further thing about this is that actually the Soto school had a big meeting the Soto headquarters with somebody and the translation project and there was actually a lot of people involved and they thought it would be a good idea for everybody in North America to be doing the same chants so you could go anywhere you wanted in North America and be at home and know the chants and I you know personally feel like heck with that you know so anyway I thought you know rather than so what I did in this regard like Taigen as far as I know is communicado right I have no idea what Taigen's wishes are in this and of course I want to be a good guest

[81:16]

and you know do what my host Tess you know is asking so but not having my hostess to talk to and and not having to talk with her about you know before this before I got here you see I'm in an awkward position you know so I called up a friend of mine I called up a friend of mine at the Zen Center headquarters in San Francisco this is a woman who's on the Zen Center board of directors which by the way I'm presently chairman of the Zen Center board I don't think you knew that in ways you may not have imagined I really am somebody you know

[82:16]

that joke it was originally a Jewish joke but I changed it to a Zen joke you know about the Zen master who used to come into the meditation hall and bow in front of the altar and say I am nobody I am nobody you know that joke no some of you don't all right I get the joke so the Zen master would bow and go I am nobody I am nobody and every time he would bow I am nobody I am nobody so this one time you know I don't know if you do it here but you know at the big centers you know there's somebody who's like everyday assigned to clean the meditation hall and they do it most of the day called the Jikido so the Jikido one day is cleaning in there and then the Zen master with the attendant leaves there's an attendant with the Zen master and they leave and then the Zen master realizes he forgot something you know like his little stick or something you know little stick this by the way is a back scratcher this is known as a Katsu

[83:16]

or Nyori Nyori and it's a free mind or the mind that reaches everywhere the mind that reaches everywhere so that's why it's like a back scratcher because you reach everywhere so it is you know if you think it looks like a back scratcher anyway the Zen master comes back to get you know what he's left behind in the meditation hall and there's the Jikido at the bowing mat you know bowing he thinks like that was so good with the Zen master and I think I'll do that too and he's bowing like I am nobody I am nobody I am nobody and the Zen master turns to the attendant and says look who thinks he's nobody but anyway so I called up my friend Mary and I said Mary is was at the Berkley Zen Center for a long time and she's appraised and she's been she's so attached to her and she's been head recently she was head of the in fact I think

[84:18]

she is now head of the Zen Do at the San Francisco Zen Center huh? Mary must sing so I thought what a good person to talk to and formerly a labor lawyer so I thought what a good person to call you know because we've got the you know the Zen expertise and the legal mind you know to help us sort this out and I figured like she would be a good person to ask so I said Mary what is the story here I've I've gotten to Evanston Illinois and they're at the cutting edge of Soto Zen you know doing you know the approved chance I said I've never heard of this before how long has this been going on and when did it happen and is it true we're all supposed to be doing this and she said no no it's just things to try out and eventually you know they want to come up with a way to do it so it wasn't nearly the sort of thing

[85:19]

I had had the feeling of we must conform to the latest in the Soto Zen way so that anybody who comes here will know the chance and the right chance to do it so so I felt a little liberty here you know personally to discuss this with you you know and at first I thought hmm well why don't we convene a meeting of the important people within the group you know the decision makers to arrive at what we want to do and I was informed that actually everybody in this group is important so here we are you know with all the important people in the group with the chance to decide for the time that I'm here which the heck form we want to chant for these different things now there's certain things that I want to do a certain way you know and that I'm willing to go along with

[86:19]

creating new forms like I love having all these bells and you know having you know an eye walking you're all supposed to be in here by the end of the second round with the hon or the bell you know and then the third round I come in you know you know having the you know you know being in this position where I come in last you know and people are all waiting and you know whatever anyway I kind of like that form and personally I think it's good for you I do I feel so much better now but anyway we already decided like this morning we're going I really like that old rope chant you know great rope of

[87:19]

liberation and this other one like to heck with that like so I don't want to do that one you know and I was just down in Tassajara in Tassajara they're not doing any of these chants so I don't know where does this stuff come from you know whose idea was it so now you haven't gotten it from Mary you know these are just things for you to try out okay so I figured you've had a chance to try them out you know for a while and now we can decide like well what do we want to do for the next three or four days and then you can have the same discussion you know your Aghast leader will return you know from the latest in training in California you know at the edge of America you know receiving the true Zen from Yvonne Rand or whatever and you can discuss this have the same discussion or a different one you know with her you know and you can rattle it out you know you didn't realize that Zen in America has this whole you know part of it which is

[88:20]

you know class struggle or you know struggle you know what do you call it in China you know like struggle perseverance perseverance furthers you know that sort of thing you know struggle furthers you know and you didn't realize that you would have to go through this stuff but you see it's all part of growing up in Zen in America so I'm for you know doing the road like we have decided great road of liberation that new one you know I personally don't want to wrap myself up in the Buddhist robe I think that's a bad idea you know like wrapping yourself up in the flag there's too many bad connotations of wrapping or wrapping yourself up like a present or you know being too wrapped so wrapped up in you know how to practice that you forget how to be in being and just kind of like a friendly person so I don't want to get wrapped up in you know my Buddhist robe I'd like to just wear it so I think we settled that one now

[89:21]

I also want to talk to you a little bit about the meal time so now is this the chant you've been doing all along or which chant? I mean the new translation this is the new translation we threw away the old one we did alright so we're stuck with the new one okay so alright I'm willing to do the new one well we'll have to wait and see what we have but do you have a preference about the meal chant whether you want to go and try it out I like the new translation where it explains each of the bodhisattvas it didn't do that before? no it doesn't really it doesn't give the clear but now we always used to do homage what happened to the homage? homage huh? this one this says evoke

[90:23]

no you don't evoke you invoke invoke well maybe you evoke we could evoke we could and then you did homage to each one yeah homage to homage to yeah yeah that was terrific but anyway I'm willing to do this but you know I can't I mean I have to look at the sheet so I was saying to Liz like normally after the first line of homage to the dharmakaya vairochana buddha the there's a clacker at the end of that line and on that clacker you know servers come in and start serving but it's really awkward for the servers to come in and serve that if nobody knows the chant and you're trying to hold the chant cards bow and pick up your bowl and be served and the chant card and put the chant card down and this and you know how can you do everything if you don't know it so

[91:24]

huh so I thought if we're not going to know the chant then it's probably better to wait until we finish all that chanting and then have the serving of the food served but anyway let's wait let's do this one more let's do this at least at lunch the new version and you can check out and see if you have old versions and if we can make them available and we'll have a new decision about it okay anyway I don't know why you got to say that in the first place because it's always been just the leader all right but it it's it always used to be may we exist in muddy water with purity like a lotus it was so it was so pure and simple and poetic and then what's with this new thing anyway I'm not you know so I'm having to restrain myself

[92:25]

and you know go along with the program and I

[92:28]

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