We decided I would do this series of classes on the precepts. I'm not an expert on precepts, so I'll just talk about what I know. I am, and I'm not, I want to say I'm not an expert, I mean, I haven't studied up on them. You know, historically, the development of the precepts going back to Buddha's time, etc., etc., so I don't know about that kind of stuff. So that's not what I'll talk about. There's a few things that interest me about precepts and one of them is why would there be such a thing? What's the point? Because it's sort of confusing to me sometimes, like, do good and don't do evil, like, which is which? And is it so obvious and is it just, you know, what the society says? Sometimes we ask, we've got teachers and they say, well, good and evil is what your society says, so we should

[01:11]

just do that. And so how do we know which is good and which is evil? And our society, if we just do what our society says, I mean, it doesn't seem all that good, not necessarily, and so it seems a little problematic. So that is one of the things that interests me, and also from the point of view of, I mean, I'm not particularly one to practice something just because somebody says you should do this. I like to have some kind of reason. I like to know why would I do that? Why would I take on these precepts or why would I take on some particular practice? So I'll talk about some of the things that seem to me that are associated or, in my thinking, I associate with precepts. And then in subsequent classes

[02:13]

we can talk perhaps a little more specifically about particular precepts and, you know, see what we think. I thought I'd talk at least for a while. I'm not sure how long it'll take. And then if there's things that you want to talk about at that point, then we can discuss those things. So for me, I guess the simplest place to start is when I think about Buddhism and what Buddhism is about or what my life is about, for that matter, because why worry about Buddhism apart from one's own life? That's another thing, you know, I, we used to, you know, Suzuki Roshi said if, you know, if Buddhism used to say things like, if Buddhism isn't about your life, then go do something else. I mean, Buddhism is about, should be about my life. It's not just some, you know, the other night I told you I went to college

[03:13]

and I studied alienation and anxiety and wrote a paper and got an A and I'm still just as alienated and anxious, right? So why don't I do something that actually addresses the anxiety and alienation? So anyway, when I think about that, the simplest thing I can come up with is that I want to be happy. And this is what Buddhism says too. And we can, at times, you know, in classical or Theravada or whatever you call it, Buddhism, there's actually this kind of expression, may I be happy. And just as I want to be happy, may other beings be happy, may all beings be happy. And, and I would not like to suffer. And just as I don't want to suffer, I don't want to cause other beings to suffer. And in my life at least, this seems to be, you know, a very basic kind of motivation that prompted me to be practicing a particular tradition like this. Because I found it very confusing. I didn't want to cause suffering. I wanted to be happy. And yet I seem to be causing suffering

[04:15]

and I didn't seem to be happy. So what was I doing wrong? It somehow seemed to be a little more complicated than we think. So I thought, first of all, I'd mention some of the things, you know, talk a little bit about happiness. So I think it's pretty obvious that happiness isn't like getting in your way all the time. And, you know, getting what you want all the time. And, you know, or even being happy all the time. And in fact, if you want to know what suffering is, then you just try to be happy all the time. This is the way it works, right? Because as soon as you try to be happy all the time, then it's so much more, so much worse that you're unhappy. Because you were trying so hard to be happy. So, like this last summer when Patty and I were in Europe, we were on our way to Plum Village

[05:17]

and we were in the first, the second night we were there, some people were staying up very late arguing and we couldn't go to sleep. And then the next night we stayed in a hotel where there's very loud traffic outside, but if you close the window, the room was very hot and stuffy. So you had to have the window open, so then it was too noisy to sleep. And then we missed our train. And then we took a train from Bordeaux to Libourne, and then from Libourne back to Bordeaux by mistake. But none of it mattered because we just kept telling ourselves, well, we're on a pilgrimage. You know, if you're on a pilgrimage, it's not like being on vacation and you're trying to be happy. You're trying to have a good time. And then when you stay in a hotel like that, whose idea was it? How come you picked this hotel and we should have been staying at that other hotel? And then you can sort of blame each other for why you're not having as good a time as you're supposed to be having

[06:19]

on vacation. So it's kind of nice to have it be a pilgrimage instead of trying that hard to be happy. And perhaps this is a little filler, but what the heck. Anyway, I read this little talk by the Dalai Lama once about, it's in that book about Tibet with all the photos, about pilgrimages. And he said, a pilgrimage you're doing for your character. And the difference of traveling all the way across Tibet and one person does it on business and the other person does it on pilgrimage is that one person is trying to make money and they're doing it for that reason. So then they don't, they don't take in their experience as something that is developing their character or their good heart. They're, they're enduring experience for the sake of, to get the money. But it's interesting because it says, it's all right if you do a little business along the way. So long as your primary motivation is pilgrimage. I appreciate it, the leniency there. So anyway, happiness isn't, isn't that

[07:26]

where you actually can be, that it's actually possible to be happy all the time. And in fact, I read a quote by Bette Midler one time and she said, you know, I was really unhappy as long as I tried to be happy all the time. Because it was so depressing whenever I was unhappy that something was wrong with me. And nobody ever told me there's no lasting happiness that you can get and have and keep. And so I kept trying to get and have and keep it and then I couldn't. So it was very upsetting. But now I know, she said, now I don't worry about it anymore because I understand that's not possible. And I'm much happier. You see? That kind of difference? Anyway, I mentioned this. I think there's a lot of ways that we tend to think of things that would make us happy. Like if my back didn't hurt. We were joking about this the other day. You know, my back, my shoulder, if this, if I, if I could just fix this, then I'd be happy. But then we find something else to complain about. So it seems pretty obvious that our happiness can't depend on getting rid of this one nagging thing. And it also doesn't seem to depend on getting that one thing that seems like it

[08:32]

would induce a lot of happiness if I had it. And there's lots of examples, but all the way from, you know, if you smoke a cigarette, if you're a smoker and you have a kind of urge or uncomfortable feeling. I used to be a smoker, so I'm somewhat familiar with it. There's some uncomfort or anxiety or something. And before you realize that there's uneasiness or anxiety or discomfort, you say, I want a cigarette. You know, the thought, you don't notice what you're feeling exactly in my experience, but sometimes I would get the uneasy feeling and the anxiety. And then I would realize, oh, this means I want a cigarette. And then you have the cigarette and that goes away, but it doesn't mean that you're happy. You know, I never found that then I was happy. And a cup of coffee doesn't make you happy. And I've also noticed like, um, you know, you can have all sorts of good times, um, and love affairs and, you know, various kinds of good times. And they may be really incredible, but it's not like you get

[09:35]

happy. You become happy. You just look around for the next thing that would make you feel better or alleviate at least the feeling of discomfort or unease or something like that. Um, so anyway, it seems like some more, we could say, you know, in a sense, true happiness or something. Uh, it seems like some, uh, so-called true happiness or happiness then is more like, uh, can't depend on any particular object, uh, of getting or getting rid of any particular thing, a state of mind, a physical problem, um, and, uh, or, you know, personally relating to this or doing that, or you can't, um, you know, if you, I mean, the, you know, for that matter, we, you know, we're, we're not going to get happiness just by following the schedule. If I follow the schedule, then I would be happy. I don't think it works like that, does it? But sometimes we think things like this, you know, if I could just accomplish this,

[10:40]

or if I could just do that, or, um, you know, if this, then, then I could be happy and all those if-then kind of things. That's not happiness because that, as soon as the, the happiness is conditioned on having or not, or, or getting rid of, then this is, uh, something that's very you know, not very dependable, and, uh, because it's so, um, uh, undependable, it can't be a source of some ongoing happiness. So I would say that happiness has something more to do with, say, um, uh, feeling okay about being me. You know, each, you know, you feeling okay about being you, you feel good about being you, or you feel, you know, there's not some problem about being alive on the face of the earth. You know, is it okay for me to be here? And I just, and so, and I, there's, or there's some, so there's, you know, and we say sometimes we call this sort of thing, um, um, you know, having faith in your buddha nature.

[11:42]

Just to feel okay about being here, feel you, you know, to be, for you to be you, and it's, and that's fine, and then, and for you to be you, or to, or to be happy doesn't mean you can't have any problems. Somehow our happiness is, so we have, so we have to get past, um, that the happiness is conditioned on something that's going to happen in the future that we can do, and we have to in some way start being happy. You know, even though there's a runny nose, and even though there's a back problem, and even though there's all these other things, because it doesn't get much better than this. And, um, uh, so in some ways the, the precepts, you know, can be this kind of reminder. Where is true happiness? Is it in, you know, killing something, getting rid of it, getting it out of your life? No, not exactly. Is it in, you know, getting something that wasn't given or, you know, stealing something? Maybe it's really great, but it's not exactly like you know, it can generate your happiness, the thing that you get. And, uh, the sexual,

[12:51]

the sexual experience, again, it's not, it, uh, may be wonderful, but it doesn't generate this kind of happiness. Um, and, uh, lying, or being in some way, um, you know, less than, uh, open with people, or deceiving people, uh, others, and making that kind of separation with others, um, again, it won't be a source of one's happiness. And, uh, and the intoxication won't be a source of one's happiness. And part of this too, is that it, that some of these things will be sure to generate, I'm, I'm going to pretty much, I think, you know, largely limit myself to these five, which are the, um, five that we do in lay initiation, because I think it's kind of sufficient to talk about a number of points. But we can also see how, certainly at times, um, when we don't have this kind of realization, we also end up causing some suffering.

[13:52]

And so again, that is pointing out also that happiness can't be, my happiness can't be dependent on somebody else's suffering. Because even if we don't rec-, even when we don't recognize it, or see it happening, the other person's suffering in some way is affecting us. Even though we don't consciously, aren't necessarily aware of it, um, we, we separate ourselves from seeing or experiencing from the other person's point of view. And the fact of doing that is in some way undermining our own happiness. So I think, um, you know, so that to me is a pretty basic place to start with the, um, what generates, uh, happiness. And, uh, you know, how do we not cause suffering? And so the, these, uh, precepts seem to be, you know, trying to say, in, uh, to point at some rather specific things that, uh, places where we can go wrong.

[14:53]

And in a certain sense, from the mistaken notion that by killing, it will make us happier. If I get rid of that creature, that person, that country, uh, and so on, I will be, I will be happy. We have this kind of idea. We have to have some notion that it's to our benefit, uh, to kill, you know, and then, that we will be better off because we kill. It, uh, obviously gets complicated. We had quite a controversy here in the 60s about earwigs in gardens. Because our gardeners didn't want to kill earwigs, and most of the garden was getting eaten up by earwigs. There's a little, yeah, they have little horns on the ends, and they're about yay long. So we had to decide what to do. We asked Suzuki Roshi, you know, how do we, what do we do with earwigs? We're not supposed to kill. So he said, we'll have to kill them.

[15:55]

And, uh, we were all kind of, uh, really? I'm a Buddhist, are you? And, um, and it's mysterious to me. You see, how do you, where do you draw that line? How do you make that kind of decision? Um, but apparently, um, we like to think that we're not in the business of being alive and gardening in order to feed earwigs. Um, so we, um, but then we had to decide how to kill them. And, and then Suzuki Roshi also said, you know, this very Japanese kind of thing of when you kill them, you, you say, may you become Buddha. So maybe that helps to say that when you do it. So it's, uh, anyway, it's a, you know, it's a question because, so the presumably, you know, killing earwigs, we're happier, we get food to eat and it helps a lot. And, uh, so there's other places where it, uh, it may not be so obvious.

[17:03]

And the whole question of eating meat is, uh, you know, that kind of question because, uh, it's obviously means, uh, we use all that grain to feed the cattle and, uh, it's changed the water resources and all that water goes, you know, for cattle that not only do the cattle eat 20 pounds of grain for every pound of meat, but they're also drinking gallons and gallons of water. Anyway, so we'll talk more specifically about all this as time goes on, but, um, let me continue with my little, um, business here. Um, so anyway, I think, so that's, um, so that's one, um, idea. And then this is also related to, well, this is being happy and not causing suffering. And it's also related to another notion in the precepts, which, um, we often hear, uh, which is that the precepts are what allows us to

[18:08]

live in peace and harmony, which is an attempt to be happy and not to cause suffering and to live in a group or a sangha or a family. Um, and to live in peace and harmony, we need, we seem to need some, uh, a kind of, uh, in order to have stability and, uh, the possibility of spiritual practice and, or to be happy and not to cause suffering, we seem to need some kind of guidelines or rules of precepts or something like that. Um, as we, um, obviously, as we go through the day, um, many things occur to us to do. And, uh, uh, of course, we may think that doing those things would make us happy. And then on the other hand, uh, you know, not doing them, you know, may not make us happy either. Um, but it's an ongoing kind of question. And, um, uh, there's

[19:10]

always some line between, I think somehow, you know, when I was studying Zen, we had this idea like, if you studied Zen long enough, you could just be free and spontaneous. And, uh, do you remember that one? And then, um, nobody said that in order to be free and spontaneous, you had to sit and follow the schedule for 30 or 40 years or so. Um, but, uh, that's a curious one. Anyway, um, but somehow that, that seems to me, it must mean, uh, it's something to do with that one, one in some way more thoroughly has integrated the notions of activity with what actually works in the world, what actually will generate happiness and, and doesn't cause suffering, both for ourself and for other people, and, or will generate peace and harmony rather than division.

[20:12]

And the, the stability of a sangha or a family is really important to us because it's, uh, it's the, it's a real support or sustenance for each of us in our life. Um, taking that on is that, each apple, if somebody did a study, they figured out that each apple on the apple tree takes 30 leaves, 30 leaves to produce an apple. So that's about us here. You know, we can each be, um, leaves for, you know, each person's apple. We have about 30 people here. So we, we don't have to count exactly, you know. I mean, we get to do it more. I mean, what I mean is, you know, there's 30 and there's going to be, we're going to have 30 leaves and 30 apples, but we'll just, we'll just sort of think about it as, you know, the 30 leaves for each of us. But we need this kind of stability and the kind of, uh, because otherwise it's, um,

[21:21]

you know, I think the more intimate you become with people, whether it's in a relationship or, or a family or sangha, um, there has to be, um, in order to become more intimate. And in that sense, it's not just with the other person, of course, or the family and the sangha, but it's becoming more intimate with your own body and mind. Right? So you need to have some kind of, a kind of rule or kind of a guideline or kind of something that you can trust that if I become more intimate, it's not going to do me in and I'm not going to get destroyed and I'm not going to get betrayed. Um, and, um, when somebody finds out, um, uh, you know, some of my secrets, um, when I find out some of my secrets, um, it's really embarrassing, you know, when, um, you know, the other night I was telling you that, um, about when I was the cook and then everybody says, well, you just use it. You know, why don't you let us eat in the soup and why don't you let us make up the menu and so on? And, um, and I always felt so embarrassed, but they all knew that

[22:30]

all along, that that's the way I was. I was the only one who didn't. So that's pretty embarrassing, you know, when you find out something about yourself that everybody else already knew. But you, you, um, in order to acknowledge something like that and then in that sense to grow, then you, you have to be able to trust that, you know, other people don't sort of use it against you or talk about it to somebody else, um, or, you know, that kind of thing that, you know, you sort of, you know, because then once somebody finds out that you're vulnerable or, um, uh, you, you, um, are sensitive to, um, being thought of, you know, that, uh, you're feeling kind of childish or, um, teary and then, you know, people start making fun of you for it and that sort of thing. So, if you're, um, and we were talking about this a few of us the other day, like in families,

[23:31]

well, that's your problem, isn't it? You know, we don't have, this is a great place, you know, but you have that problem and people sort of make fun of you and, uh, or like if you're, when you're growing up and then, um, if you show any sign of weakness, people sort of attack you for being weak or for, for being vulnerable or whatever. And, uh, so one has to feel some sort of, confidence that, uh, one can acknowledge, um, one's, uh, actual feeling and, and, uh, experience one's, uh, inmost being without, uh, that kind of fear. And so the song is a big support for this. And I think most of, I mean, I think we all understand in that sense that 30 people sitting together is a much deeper, more profound silence than the silence when you sit by yourself. And that you're, with 30 people sitting together, you're much more able to, generally speaking, you're much more able to experience the depth of your being and what's

[24:37]

in the depth of your being and to actually face the, um, pain that it is to be alive. And to meet it, um, with, um, to meet that pain or discomfort or uneasiness, you know, being this kind of living, breathing, alive creature. Um, and so of course, um, the living in peace and harmony, then we're all, we all then have a responsibility. It's supporting that this, the community or the sangha and, and ones that, uh, it supports us that we have to be, we can be that kind of support for other people too. Um, and, uh, not be too quick to, um, criticize others or to, uh, berate others or, um, tease others and so on. And, and of course, you know, and of course it's also in one's own

[25:39]

meditation practice because, um, uh, we're very likely to do the same thing to ourselves. When we're sitting and we start to feel sad and then, uh, some voice in us says, don't be such a baby. You know, what do you have to be sad about? You have a perfectly good life here at Tassajara. And you know what, anyway, one of those kind of voices, you know, so we sort of tell ourselves why we shouldn't be experiencing what we're experiencing, you know, in some way. And rather than having this kind of, uh, you know, some carefulness where we don't right away attack ourselves or criticize ourselves for feeling or, you know, for hurting or, uh, for not being able to follow the schedule and so on. Um, so that again is where precepts is not just the peace and harmony of the community, but the peace and harmony within our own being. Because we're also learning that our own being is in a sense a sangha like that. We have many

[26:40]

voices, many, um, you know, we have all these sort of voices and feelings and, um, in different bodies and somehow they've all got to be together, right? In the same place on a cushion or wherever it happens to be. And they have to figure out, you know, how to do something together and agree on doing that. It would be nice if they did. So in that sense, um, the peace and harmony that comes with the, um, the kind of adherence to a rule or precept or some effort in a sense to practice that is the basis for this kind of taking refuge in oneself. Uh, and in that sense, if you, uh, if you practice, uh, well, then you, uh, become healed. We become healed in our practice and we actually can, um, uh, relieve our suffering, uh, put an end to our

[27:43]

suffering and, uh, we can be happy. Um, so there's a third way I want to talk about this sort of, uh, notion about the precepts, um, and somewhat related, but, you know, now this is a somewhat related to these first two ways I've talked about it, um, but putting it in a kind of Buddhist context and a kind of context of what it is to have a, to be on a kind of spiritual journey or an inward, inward journey. Um, so in a sense then, um, we can also say that spiritual practice or spiritual path is to realize, uh, what one's, uh, to, to, how do you say, um, uh, anyway, um, I forget the exact expression, but, um, to realize your heart's desire, your true heart's desire, in a sense. Um, we also, um, yeah, we have this kind of expression,

[28:50]

innermost request or the, um, you know, inmost wish. Uh, so then one hand there's identifying that and then there's how do we express that or manifest that in our daily life. And inmost request, um, you know, for most of us, I don't know, sometimes I have a hard time, you know, looking at precepts and saying, you know, how does this express my inmost request? So I have to kind of rewrite them. You know, I have to make up my own inmost request for it to make sense to me. Um, so, um, uh, this is what I do if I say, you know, I want to be happy. I don't want to touch suffering. This is my inmost request. This is, you know, this is my simple articulation of it, which also is there in Buddhism. Um, but over the years I've had various ones, you know, which, you know, I just, one of them I was telling you earlier, I want it to be okay for me to be me. I just want to feel good about being here, about being alive. I want to

[29:52]

be thankful. I want to have gratitude. I want to be able to appreciate, uh, being alive. Um, or I'd like to be, uh, generous. You know, it's in, these things are right there in, in also in like the Paramitas. I want to be generous. Um, sometimes when I was cooking, I never felt as, uh, sometimes, uh, I sort of hear things like this around here, but, um, you know, I never felt particularly appreciated. I, like anybody was really thankful or really appreciated my effort, or I don't think they realized what an effort I was making. Certainly not enough so that it made any difference in my life. I think probably they did, but it's not like somebody can come up to you and say, we really appreciate what you did. Will you be happy now? You can feel good about yourself now. You can be happy now. Um, you know, relax. We really do. Somehow even if people are doing

[30:54]

the appreciating, they're not telling me in a way which actually changes the way I think. I still think I need to prove something in order to be happy. You know, if you're, if you're, so if you're happiness, there's the perfect example of happiness being dependent on, if your happiness is dependent on producing a good meal, right? Then how long do you get to be happy when you do a good meal before you have to start worrying about your next one? Because you're only as good as your last meal. It's not a very good basis for happiness, you see. And then, um, and then actually, you know, I realized at some point, well, I'm not, I don't really care if they like the food, I want them to like me. And I was just, I realized that I was thinking that, I thought that if they liked the food, that sort of would reflect well on me, then I could like myself. Or somehow they liked the food, that meant they liked me, which, and if they liked me, then probably it would be all right if I liked myself. So somehow we sort of look for something to come from outside so that I can, you know, which will authenticate me so I can feel okay

[31:58]

about being me. And so is it, is enough of it coming, you know, from out there? Are you getting enough? Probably not. You know, some, at some point you just have, you know, we just make a decision. It's, or you jump into sort of a phase, you know, yes, it's okay for me to be here. I'm a nice person. I'm, I'm a sincere person. I'm making a good effort. Everything doesn't come out perfectly the way I'd like, but I'm actually trying. This is about as good as I can do. And I am just the kind of person I am. And so I wasn't getting appreciated enough, so every so often I think, why don't I just not show up? Then, then they'll notice. They'll notice what a contribution I made when they see that I wasn't making it today. And I thought about that and thought about that on various occasions, and I finally decided,

[32:59]

no, actually, it's not that I want that kind of attention. What I want is to be generous. And I want to be generous in a way where it's, where I'm not looking for something to come back and return. I'd like to be that generous. I'd like to be that giving where I can keep offering food because it's my offering, because it's coming out of my generosity, and it's not dependent on somebody else's. Oh, thank you very much. Oh, we appreciate your effort. I don't think you know what I went through. So there's generosity, and you know, I'd like to be patient. And when I look into, you know, my heart, my being, I want to be patient. I want to be kind. The Dalai Lama keeps saying things like this over and over again. The important thing is to have a good heart, and to develop your good heart, and express your good

[34:02]

heart. And, and, you know, we all have a good heart. So if there's some way we have to just acknowledge that, it's a very simple, direct way. I have a good heart. Now I'd like, and I'd like to express it and manifest it in the world. So again, the, the precepts, and, you know, our study of a lifetime, which will be some way for us to look at specific activities or actions in our life, and remind us to look at things and see, is it generating, is this a kindness? Is this, is this, is this what being patient is? Is this generosity? Is this the generosity that I, that I want to manifest? And there's mindfulness, and there's being concentrated, being one with others, being whole, feeling whole in one's own body and mind, rather than feeling at war with

[35:09]

oneself, in some way divided. Samadhi, in a certain sense of concentration, is to be whole, to be not fighting with yourself, not at odds with yourself about what's going on in your life. So, and I want to be able to understand things or see things clearly, you know, some sensuism. So, again, I think the, you know, the precepts are more sort of the traditional or classic way, the traditional way that we have to express, I would say, in-mouth requests. And it's obviously, if, if it was simple, you know, we'd all just be doing it moment after moment, and it's clearly much more complicated than that. In that sense, I very much appreciate when Thich Nhat Hanh talks about precepts, she says,

[36:10]

you know, it's not a matter of whether you're following the precepts or not following the precepts. When we recite the precepts, we ask, we say, have you, in the last month or last week, made an effort to observe, to practice, and to follow these precepts? And to study, and practice, observe, follow. And he said, you don't say yes and you don't say no. It's enough just to reflect, have you made this kind of effort? Are you making this kind of effort? Are you examining what you do? Are you studying the way you behave? Are you looking into what would be, what would it be to generate true happiness in your life? So you don't say yes, because it's not as though you could do that every moment, and that there was some way to check it off. Yes.

[37:11]

Did it. Not to kill. Yep. And, and also you don't say no, because it's not as though you didn't. And especially when you study Thich Nhat Hanh's precepts, they're much vaster. We sort of tend to think about the precepts as being my life. So like for stealing, he says, realizing that the cause, that, that noticing and realizing and understanding that exploitation, social injustice, and so on, has caused a lot of suffering in the world. You know, he says that all these things like exploitation of third world countries, this is stealing. You know, and so it's not just that you don't practice stealing, but you should stop others from social injustice and exploitation. This is the second precept. And if you didn't make an effort to stop the Persian Gulf War, you were breaking the first precept.

[38:15]

Yeah. So this is his understanding of the, of his precepts. He extends out into the world very definitely. And he also says that things like, you know, if there's a Persian Gulf War, then, you know, your practice wasn't good enough. And also my practice wasn't good enough. But that doesn't mean to say, you know, that we don't have a good heart, or that now we should in some way question our good heart, you know, and our, our inmost request. No, we need to take refuge in it again, more. And I mean, rather than just saying, well, I did that one miserable me. What's wrong with me? You need to try harder. So on the way we can do some things about towards ourselves, especially.

[39:19]

Well, it's all right if other people get mad, but I do. Anyway, there's the, there's the last way I'd like to talk about the, sort of the precepts and the, sort of, use of precepts. And this has to do with, kind of, I don't know what to call it, but I guess I think about it having to do with, again, like spiritual path, or what it is to, in essence, to grow, to develop, to move forward in one's life. And to look at this, this, this involves understanding that the, the normal mode of everyday life, which we're not quite involved with here so far, but just to put a little perspective on it. We divide up consciousness between what we call consciousness and unconsciousness, or consciousness and, you know, storehouse consciousness. And consciousness then is like the living room, and then the storehouse is like the basement.

[40:22]

Mostly we like to stay in the living room and then have a nice life there. And one of the things that helps us stay in the living room is to have lots of guests and invite them in and entertain them, and they can entertain me. And these guests are other people, and experiences, and foods, and intoxicants, and drugs, and music, and various things that will keep our consciousness occupied, so that we don't have to notice what's in the basement. You know, what's actually going on at another level of our being, which is our food. And so if we stay busy enough with all these guests, and it's very entertaining, and then every so often in spite of this, you know, and, you know, work is another good one. You can stay busy working, right? And, and it's another way to like not be acknowledging the

[41:28]

basement, and in the basement is all these seeds, and sometimes somebody says something, and, and I get angry. And then, you know, we can say, you made me angry. And it's not noticing that the seeds of anger must have been in our own basement, and somebody says something which watered the seeds, and they sprout into being, and they come up into the living room. The Venus flytrap you wrote. Now you know where all these horror movies come from. So I think you're familiar with this phenomenon of things somehow appearing from the basement that we didn't invite into the living room, and they somehow barge in anyway. Now what do you do? Well, usually the tendency is to react to things in the basement with, you know,

[42:31]

anger, or fear, or violence, or, you know, sometimes you can also, you know, what are you doing here? Get out of here. Go away. I don't want to have anything to do with you. And there's, and what's wrong with you? How come you're here? You know, so we do all these things, and then there's all the things like, oh, I'm so sad that you would do this. You know, there's great things that we can do, right? And then it would be, you know, maybe we can have something more entertaining come into, you know, so we don't have to pay any attention to that. You know, so we can look for something that's even more entertaining than this awful thing that suddenly appeared in the living room. That's called, you know, usually like sense desire. Look for something that's more entertaining than the problem that, you know, come up now. So there's, so there's those five hindrances, right? Sense desire, and anger, and sloth and torpor. Let's go to sleep. Maybe it won't be here when we wake up. And there's excitement, and worry, and there's doubt. Anyway, we can talk about hindrances

[43:35]

another time. But anyway, the point is that generally when things come up in the basement, we don't relate to them with the kindness, and the compassion, and the consideration, and there's some kind of being with them. We react with the same thing oftentimes. Anger comes up, and we feel, you know, angry about being angry. And when we do that, then as soon as we are angry, and we do various things in order to counteract things that are coming up in our life that we didn't want to deal with, and we don't like, and we react in this so-called unskillful fashion, this is in Buddhist understanding, of course, generating the seeds that are going into the basement, which are going to come up in the future. So it's ongoing, right? Anger comes up, we react with anger. It creates the seeds to react again with anger in the future. And so how do you, how is, this kind of life is not what you would

[44:36]

call growing. This kind of life is being stuck in the same pattern, in the same habit of being. Okay, and it's because when we act in a certain way, it generates a seed, and it comes up, that somehow in order to, in order to grow, in order to develop, in order to progress, so to speak, or, and to, you know, clean out the basement, you know, we have to start, we have to start using something, you know, say the precepts. But anyway, basically, we have to start relating to things with the basic precepts, in a sense, is mindfulness in Buddhism. To be mindful of something, but that doesn't mean then reacting with anger. To be mindful is to touch it in our own being, to touch it, to know it, to become familiar with something, and to find out how to relate with it

[45:38]

in a way that is, that is conducive to generating happiness, and in a way that is not further producing these kind of seeds that perpetuates our own unhappiness. So, in a certain sense, you know, zazen is kind of, in some ways, you know, we often use for a model for this sort of thing, and in that sense, then the basic kind of... So, or if, you know, anyway, because we take on this kind of discipline in this sense, we're not acting out the anger, we're not acting out the upset, we're not acting out the turmoil which is coming up, and we're not, in that sense, acting out or reacting to what's coming up. And by not reacting, then we are not creating more seed, the continuation of the seed. Do you understand me? I think it's pretty simple.

[46:42]

The basic idea is pretty simple. So, in some sense, this again is to realize, to be realizing our inherent well-being, or our inherent happiness. And this is the kind of teaching that we get in Soto Zen, to take refuge in that, our inherent well-being, or, you know, our Buddha nature. So, anyway, you could also then say this means not killing, and not taking what isn't given, and not chasing after sensual objects, and not lying, and not, you know, having renewed

[47:42]

intoxication in order to avoid not getting intoxicated, in order to avoid dealing with the basement. So these, in that sense, then we can see these precepts in some way that remind us the tendencies we have to do those various things as a way to not deal with the depth and pain that's in our own being. An alternative to having the pain that's in our being is to become intoxicated, or is to lie, not admit I have this pain in my being, not admit my fault, and blame things on other people, and so on. I think if you look at it, you can see the way in which this is so. And this is an interesting book, Zen Lessons. I don't know how many of you have looked at this book, but it's pretty interesting because it's called Zen Lessons, The Art of Leadership. It's sort of a companion to Zen Essence, translated by Tom Perry. And this, of all the Zen things that

[48:48]

I've seen, seems to talk a lot about this business of more or less precepts, doing good, not doing evil, and how it is that especially good leaders in communities follow precepts. Anyway, I'll just read you one of these tonight. Ling Yuan said, when you cut and polish a stone, as you grind and rub, you don't see it decreasing, yet with time it will be worn away. When you plant a tree and take care of it, you do not see it increase, but in time it gets big. When you accumulate virtue with continued practice, you don't see the good of it, but in time it will function. If you abandon righteousness, and go against it, you do not see the evil of it, but in time you will perish. When students finally think this through and put it into practice, they will develop great capacity and emanate a fine reputation. This is the way that has not changed, now or ever.

[49:51]

Anyway, I think it's a nice book. I don't know if they have copies of it here. I also have copies of Thich Nhat Hanh's precepts, which maybe we can interact with at some point. It was sort of funny when we were in France, he talked about the third precept, and it used to be, he said, no sexual activity, no sexual relationship without love and a commitment. So then while we were there, he had changed it, and he said, no sexual relationship without love and a lifetime commitment. There were several people who were there who said, I took it before. I didn't sign up for this. Anyway, well, I think that's about what I'd like to, you know, what I wanted to put out is a few

[51:04]

sort of different possible ways of thinking about why we would have such a thing as precepts, how they might function in one's life. Does it make any sense to you, or is there something else you want to talk about? Could you repeat the names of the books? Oh, this is Zen Essence, but I, you know, the other one, I wasn't talking about it, I just, you know, I have a lot of, oh, Zen Essence, yeah, Zen Essence is the, nice little book of sayings. This one in particular emphasizes precepts and conduct. You know, like here, good leadership, good leaders make the mind of the community their mind, and never let their minds indulge in private prejudices. They make the eyes and ears of the community their eyes and ears, and never let their eyes and ears be partial. Thus they are ultimately able to realize the will of the community and comprehend the feelings of the community.

[52:05]

When they make the mind of the community their own mind, good and bad are to the leaders what good and bad are to the community. Therefore, the good is not wrongly so, and the bad is unmistakably so. Then why resort to airing what is in your mind and accepting the flattery of others? You know, if you're a leader, once you use the community's ears and eyes for your own ears and eyes, then the people's perceptivity is your own. Thus it is so clear nothing is not seen, nothing is not heard. So then why add personal views and stubbornly invite hypocrisy and deception from others? By this we know that when leaders have the same desires as their communities, they are called wise sages. When their desires differ from those of their communities, they are called mediocre. In general, there is a difference in the meanings of opening up and offering to one's views, good or bad, success and failure, go in opposite ways like this. Can it not be the difference in the sentiment with which they seek fault and the dissimilarity

[53:12]

in the ways in which they entrust people? Anyway, there's many, many sorts of things in here like that. And so I found this particularly kind of useful that way. You know, because we've gotten sort of over the years, you know, we sort of tended to get certain kinds of zen things translated. You know, that's what comes with certain kinds of zen things. And so we're all sort of setting that and there's this whole, this other whole sort of bodies and senses of zen and Buddhism that we sort of didn't get or we're just getting or something. It's a little bit like Thich Nhat Hanh when he says that, you know, you zen people, you know, the Buddhist practice should have something to do with your life, the suffering that's in your life, your daily life. And you talk about, you know, ultimate reality and, you know, supreme enlightenment. What does it matter if you know you're suffering and other people around you are suffering?

[54:15]

It needs to be something real that, you know, helps people in their life, helps you in your life. The practice needs to be real. And for that reason, you know, something as simple as smiling. Smiling is this kind of being happy. I remember, you know, we haven't talked about it much, but I remember years ago, I forget if it was Covincino or Pettigrew, we had this talk in the old Zen dojo and the whole talk was about smiling. And that when you meet somebody here at Tassajara you bow and you should also smile. And that this smile was, you know, to not be attached to your state of mind. You know, what you were feeling, what was so important to you. You meet somebody, you smile. Because you're, this is to meet, you know, the Buddha. You smile to meet the Buddha. You offer the Buddha your smile. And of course, then we had all these questions and he just said,

[55:19]

what if I don't feel like smiling? Do I have to smile anyway? And so on. And isn't that, you know, insincere and so on. But that's, but that's a very, that's a very basic, you know, direct simple practice to be happy and to make others happy. To let go of how you're feeling and smile when you meet someone. And, you know, sometimes we do pretty well like that. You know, we bow, we're busy, we're thinking about stuff. But we have many of those kind of occasions and for happiness it can't depend on, you know, waiting until I've got it together then I can be happy or whatever. I mean, you have to start somewhere. Just being happy. Smiling. I'm feeling good. Should we wait until, you know, the end of practice period to be happy because it's over?

[56:20]

I have some, um, it has to do with the significance of it for me and not backing off of it. And how, what I find life-adding for me in my practice is learning my practice without into something that sounds a lot more like, you know, commandments or the gods and whatnot. And then it would have to be the basing of myself. And not react to it without falling into it. Well, there you go. It's not that easy, is it? So, um, I don't, uh, I think that's, you know, that's why we practice. And that's, that's

[57:45]

obviously the, um, you know, something you, you practice with over time. And that's why we don't just say yes or no when we know about the precepts. For sure I've done that. No, I haven't. Because in that sense with the precepts or with that kind of thing, there's a, there is a very fine line and nobody else is going to tell you where it is exactly so that you'll know now for the future, which it is. It's more like as something happens, then you go, which side of the line am I on now? And sometimes you don't know until a little bit later. Oh my goodness, I must have been repressing this because, you know, I think it's been going on about four days or, you know, or whatever it is, or maybe it's been going on 40 years. And, um, and then this is the side of, you know, too much acting out. Um, and this is the side of, uh, trying to get attention. And, you know, so, um, that's what

[58:48]

it's there for so that we can, we, uh, we have something that reminds us that, yes, there is a line and this is what we're studying all the time. And so, um, and in a certain sense then wisdom is to, is to be able to make that kind of distinction and discrimination. In order to make that kind of discrimination, you need to have been on both sides of the line a lot. So the same when something comes up, you can say, oh, that's on this side. Oh, that's on this side. Because you've been on both sides and you understand what each side is. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Well, I may have, um, you know, said something not quite carefully enough

[60:07]

because I, I think you're, I mean, I would say what you're saying. No, I'm talking about more like, um, um, when you do start crying and you say, oh, you baby. Uh, or when you do, um, you know, if somebody says something to you and you get angry and back and, uh, that's a more of a kind of acting out and it is more to do with the reactive, the reactive kind of, um, rather than experiencing it. The point is to experience what's in the basement, which includes crying and anger and various things. And then not to be reacting to that or, or acting it out, manifesting it in such a way that you, you generate more of it. You're creating more, you're quite right. There's this whole business about anger of, you know, that it seemed to be in the women's movement to say, well, women need to be angry because they've spent so much time repressing their anger. And I think it may be true that if you've spent a lifetime repressing anger, you need to be angry for a while. But if you stop

[61:10]

there, you know, it's not, it's not finished. Then it, you know, then your anger is like your pet dog. And when the right opportunity comes, you say, sick him. The dog jumps. So that's not transforming anger or integrating anger in any real way into your life. Anyway, I think what you're saying is, is right. Thank you if I said it, you know, not quite careful enough. No, I did say, I think I did say something like that. You were talking about breaking the classic truth that you can get on your own. And there's a couple of things you said that, you know, I hear a lot that I have to talk to you about and talk to you about the relationship you have with women. Um, well, I think when you, you know, when we say and suffering,

[62:54]

I mean, it seems like people mean different things. Okay. And I think some people really mean sort of like all suffering. But what I mean is more like a very particular kind of mental suffering, the suffering of, you know, what's wrong with me that I have these problems that other people don't seem to have. And this kind of ongoing kind of one's own with it, one generates that just seems to make one feel bad. You know, criticizing oneself and derating oneself. And, um, you know, you should try harder. And why didn't you take care of that? And how come you made that stupid mistake? And this ongoing kind of thing where so at some point, I think my experience is that you can, that it's possible to end the good deal of that at least. You know, this is a very particular kind of mental suffering. You know, and or mentally, you know, the kind of mental, which is, which is the other side of

[63:58]

what I said of, um, you know, I'm basically to say I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a sincere person. I try hard. I have good intention. And there's no reason for me to feel badly about myself. I can't do everything perfectly, but it doesn't mean that, you know, that there's something wrong with me. You know, that I keep pushing myself to try to fix. I'm more perfect. So somehow that whole, that sort of voice, you know, that is, uh, you know, some people, there was that book about taming your gremlin. I think it's possible to subdue that gremlin. In Tibetan Buddhism, they talk about that, um, you know, ego. I mean, you call it ego, whatever, you know, that we can actually subdue that in some way. Not that it doesn't appear, but you know, it's, we're much more comfortable with relating to that in a way that we don't feel, um, ashamed or guilty or that kind of various things.

[65:01]

Mindfulness, I mean, I was using it. I mean, I'm not, uh, it's true. We haven't talked about it carefully and, um, but I think you could also say, and in the sense that I was using it, um, because we haven't talked about it in a way, it's a little, you're right, it's one of those buzzwords. Um, and in the sense we could say that Buddhism is just saying, you know, let's, let's really make an effort to be present in the moment with all of our being rather than just part of our being. And you could also say something like that as being a kind of basic precept rather than, um, and so in that sense, it's like, um, um, well, I want a cigarette or I want a cup of coffee. And then we, but at some point we remember, you know, or I want to eat more that if I eat more, I get a stomachache. If I have another coffee now, I don't sleep tonight. And if I have a cigarette, I'm going to have a cough in the morning. And that, that our whole being is there and not just one part of our being and then everybody else in our being splits.

[66:12]

You know, that we're, we don't get bullied, you know, in our own, in our own being by one aspect of our being. Have you noticed that sometimes, how we can get bullied? The bully is somebody who comes on the scene and everybody else splits. Everybody else leaves. Big mean person. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I've worried about that for a long time ago.

[67:18]

And, uh, generally my, um, so generally my, uh, what I've ended up doing is not smiling very much because I was so worried about that. Because I remember all the times that I was kind of, I was the person suffering and somebody would smile at me and I would think, what do you have to smile about? And so I didn't want to be the person smiling at somebody else who was saying that to me. Uh, and, um, so on the whole, I think I've erred, you know, I think I've erred on not smiling enough that I could be smiling more. But, you know, also what I said the other night about Suzuki Roshi that it was very important to me that he wasn't, didn't particularly smile. You know, there wasn't any life or dislike, but a smile can be like that too. Not a smile that says. Sometimes you see somebody smiling when you don't feel good and it, it cheers you up.

[68:25]

You know, it helps you let go of. Of course, so anyway, you'll have to see. I think, you know, you have to play it by ear. So you'll, sometimes you won't smile enough and other times you may smile a little inappropriately. But if you don't smile because you're afraid it's going to be inappropriate, or you're going to wait until it's the perfect time to smile, then you may have a long wait. So on the whole, I think it may be better to err on the other side of smiling too much than not smiling enough. Anyway, see, this is what we have to figure out. Do you understand? So. Anyway, I certainly hope that if I say something like that, you don't have to be unhappy if you find that you're not smiling enough.

[69:30]

You know what I mean? I just mean like, I don't want anybody to, to feel like, later, like, gosh, I don't feel like smiling. I haven't been smiling. Oh, this isn't very good. I'm not practicing very well. Because that certainly wasn't the point of saying anything about it. Would you say too, in the precepts and in practice, it's important to get these things out of one's head and get them into one's heart? At least that's what I think I heard you saying when you were talking about it. There's so much, I know I've been guilty of so much head-deep thinking about what is right and not knowing what is right. And then I found basically what works is just let it be, let it get into your heart and feel it. Yeah. And it's partly through, you know, I think it,

[70:37]

anyway, through practice you do get, you do become more understanding and know your heart better. And oftentimes we find out about our heart through our interaction with others. And it's obviously not too easy then to be more open-minded. Can you talk a little bit about how you examine your life in the precepts and follow the precepts without sort of creating a separation between someone who's watching and someone who's not? Well, that's a little bit like the, you know, a writer and writer's block. Because if you're going to write and then you're worried about, is this all right what I'm writing?

[71:41]

Is this good enough? Is anybody going to want to read it? You assume you aren't writing anything because you're, because you're all the time making this kind of examination. So you're overly, you're over-examining. Just like if you're, if you're trying to follow the precepts and you're watching yourself all the time, you simply can't do anything with them. So either you, you know, one, there seems to be different strategies for this. One kind of strategy is that the watcher should make himself or herself very unobtrusive. And just very small little pieces of mind way up, you know, off to the side. And they, but part of practice is also then to create the kind of watcher that can be like that. So that's what, you know, that well-known give your sheep or cow a large pasture. And just to have awareness even of your breath means you have to also let go of your breath.

[72:45]

Because if you're aware too tightly, our awareness will tend to have an element of control in it and making it a certain way as soon as you're aware of something. Well, I have a nice long, calm breath. Thank you. So then as soon as we start to follow our breath, we're starting to make it a certain way. You know, so we're trying to, we're, part of practice is cultivating awareness that doesn't have so much that sense of control in it. That we can actually be aware of things that are disturbing or aware of a short breath as well as a long breath or an agitated breath as well as a calm breath. That our awareness can be that flexible and subtle. And that kind of, what do you call it, non-opinionated or not, you know, that it's not trying to make it so much one way or another. So that's possible to do that, to watch and to not be shaping quite so much. The other kind of strategy is that you, the other kind of strategy is that you, that you drop the watcher for a while.

[73:50]

If you're getting, especially if you're getting over encumbered with the watcher, you kind of drop the watcher for a while and practice without the watcher and then you invite the watcher back and say, how was that? So anyway, that's another possibility. That's what I do with writing, for instance, you know, because I have to sort of say to the sensor, thank you, check back with me in about half an hour. I have some things to write and in half an hour you can come back and tell me what you think. That's right, sometimes it's not so easy. But it also, so there's two things that help with that kind of, if you're trying out that kind of strategy, there seems to be two things that help. One is to be very reassuring to the watcher that you're not trying to kill it off.

[74:54]

Look, I really appreciate your opinion, you know, I want to know what you think of this, but I want you to tell me later, you know, and I will invite you back. I promise, you know, it's not like I'm trying to get rid of you forever. I just like to leave me alone for the next half hour. It's this kind of thing. You make a very definite, firm agreement in that not that you're trying to get rid of it. Because otherwise, if you have in fact the idea, I'm so tired of being watched and I'm just going to get rid of this, then that watcher will know that and say, I'm not going anywhere. You're never going to let me back again. So you have to make a very careful agreement that for sure you'll invite the watcher back. And the second thing is that you have to be, you know, then be very firm. And if necessary, forceful and, you know, definitely forceful and, you know, determined and strong about it. Now get out of here. And then do what you want to do.

[76:01]

Now dive into what you're doing. I think it's about time to stop. Thank you very much.

[76:14]

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