Oh, that's pretty cool. So, tonight we're talking about concentration. It's interesting to me, this is a little inside, but it's interesting how I give different kind of talks under different kind of circumstances, and so I don't, when we're all sitting together like this, it feels pretty subtle, and I don't feel like I have to entertain you so much.

[01:08]

I do have some other circumstances. When I get in front of other, certain other audiences, I feel sort of like I, I feel like I need to be more entertaining. And that's, partly that's interesting because it's the difference between, it partly has to do with the difference in level of concentration. A few times ago on Saturday at Green Gulch, we were talking about concentration, and I used, I read part of a passage from, I forget the person's name, but it was a passage this person wrote, first of all, about an ocean trip coming over from London to America on a kind of a freighter with all these huge cargo containers, which turned out that a lot of them were filled with burnt crack from Macy's, and then he wrote about going to Macy's in New York City, and how Macy's in New York City had, you know, fields of night owls,

[02:12]

and meadows that's so pleasant, you know, and, and then there was like, you know, you want a log cabin, you've got it. And then you want the English gentleman's, you know, country estate, you know, here it is. And then they have the fishing rods and things that really are kind of cheap and junky, but they're kind of associated in the store with the English lodge, you know, the English gentleman's things. So they have, they have this aura of being, you know, like what you would get if you were an English country gentleman. And then different parts of the store have different kinds of music and so on. And so, and there's the music and then there's the different things. And so, and so Macy's obviously doesn't think much about your level of concentration, because you see, their idea is that you need to be amused and entertained moment after moment, you know, around every corner, around every turn, something new, something entertaining,

[03:12]

a different music, you know, and they have, you know, they have classical music in one place, and country and western in another, and all kinds of different music and different things. In one store? Yeah, yeah. So this is, this is, you know, marketing. In marketing, the idea in marketing, you know, is that, you know, people, people don't have much capacity for concentration. So this is the way it is in television, you know, and in stores, that basically people can't concentrate or incapable of concentration, they need something to catch their attention. And so, and they're not particularly focused or engaged. So, the next thing that's more entertaining and more interesting is something that's always there to, you know, for you. And then the idea is that, you know, if you spend, by spending money, you can have these amusements in your house, you know, for, you know, you all the time. And so, he was saying that obviously Macy's doesn't think much about your capacity for

[04:18]

concentration, that you need to be amused and entertained moment after moment. And that all the objects in the store have this little kind of thing that they say, they're all saying, for you, for you, just for you. But that there's an insidious coda that goes along with it. Are you sure you belong here? You know, like, are you really good enough to have all these things? Or do you, you know, maybe you should be, maybe you don't really belong here. But if you have the money, you can belong, you can join. Macy's? Well, Macy's, you know, made this sort of strategic move which should have helped them for a long time, which was they decided to go upscale. They used to be more on a par with, sort of, Pennington and Florian and other places. And they kind of, Macy's, Macy's went upscale.

[05:21]

That's also part of what's in this little story. And they decided to, you know, sell status rather than objects. The public would be more interested in buying status than they would be in buying objects. And they'd be willing to pay more for the objects if they got status with them, you know, in addition to just getting the object. But this also came up recently, and I was reminded of it too. Some months ago, somebody from, or Dale Press called me up and started talking to me about meditation and cooking and meditation. She heard I did these retreats on cooking and meditation. So I talked to her for 20 or 30 minutes. So I get back this, you know, about 50 page thing, which is her article for some, one of the Rodale magazines. And it was one of the most inane things I'd ever read.

[06:21]

And the part where I'm in there, she talked to me for 20 or 30 minutes, there was three paragraphs, and she didn't get the most basic information about what I said correct. You know, and then she had completely the wrong idea about tazam. She said, you don't follow your breath, you just sit there and regard the world. And it's kind of like, it's kind of like, you know, like there's, you know, I said when I was talking about concentration that, you know, it has something to do with the depth of things. And here's a perfect example of where somebody does not have any respect for concentration, and there's completely no depth to this article. It's completely superficial, and little tidbits like that. You know, little tidbits like in Zen, you don't, and she's contrasting this to the things that come before it, right? You know, where you've gotten involved with your breath, or you've done a mantra or you've focused on something. And in Zen, you don't do this and this and this, you just sit there and regard the world. And so that's supposed to fit in and be this little blip in things,

[07:23]

but really tell you nothing and has completely no depth. Well, they sent this out to me so that I could comment on it, and so I've made a few, I had a chance to make a few corrections before it goes into this article, you know. And so Zen and, you know, everything I had to say was some, you know, was, you know, Zen, three paragraphs on Zen, that's it. Because, you know, and then, you know, yoga, another three paragraphs, and they had Mentokugosa, who I... What was the overall subject of it? Oh, it was sort of like, it goes about, you know, your life is very stressful, isn't it? And it's always one thing after another. And, you know, if it's not the kids, it's this and that. And then, you know, it paints this little picture of, you know, modern stressful life. And then here are the things that you could do. You know, and you could do yoga, or you could do Zen, or you could do this, or you could do that. And then... And then it gets through the article, and then so... Eight pages later, you don't know anything more than you knew when you started. And it was kind of a little amusing and a little titillating to kind of read

[08:25]

and a little entertaining. But it didn't... But in the process of that, it doesn't really allow you, you know, to go to any depth in any of these things. And it doesn't allow you to go into your own depth. Because it's keeping you... It's keeping you on the surface of things with these little entertaining things without really telling you anything about anything. And so it doesn't... It's not like... And it's not like you needed to concentrate to read the article either. Basically. It's not like you needed to concentrate and sort of like, what are they talking about here? Oh, and then, you know, there's nothing that's drawing you into any depth or you into any concentration in the process of reading it. So... When I talked to this editor, she agreed to take my name off their list of people. I said, you know, I have to... I talked to this woman for 30 minutes, now I have to talk to you for another 30, and I'm writing your three paragraphs for you now. You know, and the woman couldn't even write the paragraphs for herself

[09:26]

after talking to me for 30 minutes, and now I have to... You know, she said, okay, I'm not... You know, I'll take your name off our list of, you know, references. But anyway, my point is that, you know, there's another example, and basically, you know, I'm just saying that our culture doesn't particularly value the quality of concentration and the quality of looking into something with some depth. You know, and so a lot of things that are... and especially at that level of media, you know, the newspapers, magazines, television, it's things to catch your attention, but then they keep you on the surface of things and keep you from actually looking at anything or experiencing anything or thinking about anything in some ways, and keep you out of... and it keeps you out of your own experience sometimes because it's all these little interesting little tidbits and I don't know what I'm talking about. And so there's actually a kind of antipathy or fear of concentration, a fear of depth. So anyway, this is all kind of an aside

[10:32]

because it's... but it's something about the context that we're living in, you know, where our concentration isn't particularly valued. And as a teacher, you know, I tell my children, I'm very sure they actually know what they're going to do. And they don't actually understand it. It's not that they don't love it, it's not that they don't want to do it, but they want to do something. I don't know. I don't know. Well, there's sort of qualities or ways in which both are true of children.

[11:34]

I mean, obviously we must all have some kind of... you know, there's enough... In certain ways, we do have a kind of short potential span. But on the other hand, we have this great capacity for a concentration of fear so that at least both are there or there wouldn't be all this mass media stuff if we didn't have something that happens in that direction too. So this brings up, I guess, in a certain way, what is this about? And so concentration, the qualities of concentration we talked about, so it has to do with some focusing or collecting one's energy, collecting one's being. And in that process, there's a kind of depth to one's experience which isn't there when you're just on the surface. If you actually want to find out about Zen, you can't, you know, sort of say,

[12:37]

you know, three paragraphs. You know, they don't follow their breath, they just sit still and do nothing or regard the world. Or they make their mind blank. You go, oh yeah, so that tells you about Zen? You find out something about it because you sit here for 40 minutes, then you've got some depth. And your experience has some body to it which is something... there's something more to it than you can just sort of put in a few little words. You know, summarize it in a little capsule. And your experience is, all the time our experience is bigger than that, deeper than that, even if we describe it to somebody or describe it to ourself, it's something bigger than that or deeper than that at the same time. So, the quality of concentration is said to have this kind of depth and it's also said then to one who is concentrated can see more clearly.

[13:37]

You can see more clearly when you're concentrated than if you're scattered. If you're switching from one object to another and, you know, and first one thing you have to relate to and then you have to relate to something else. And so, partly that, you know, what she's talking about, about modern life and the stress of it is the quality of having so many objects and things to relate to that there's not the opportunity and you have to keep switching from one to another. There's not the opportunity to relate with any one thing in any depth. So, one who is concentrated can relate, your concentration one is relating to things more deeply and then there's a kind of clarity as you can see what's going on. And next week we talk about what you see, what is seen, in a sense. And there's certain, in Buddhism, there's considered to be five basic kinds of hindrances or things that we tend to do

[14:40]

rather than concentrate. Only five? Yeah, five. So, the reason why they're called hindrances is because they hinder concentration absorption, not because they don't have their own value, but in the context of concentration they're considered hindrances because they interrupt concentration. So, the five things that interrupt concentration are, first of all, there's sense desire. So the mind or something goes up, mind or whatever you call it, awareness goes out, to something that would be sensually pleasing. Either something that's present or something imagined, doesn't have to be there. But there's, instead of, you know, like if you were following your breath and then you start thinking about how pleasant,

[15:41]

you know, it might be to be outside and nourishing or wonderful, that might be. You know, or there's, you know, there's the categories of food, you know, very sensual experiences. And then the second category is the opposite, dislike and anger. So, that tends to interrupt concentration when you start thinking about how painful it is to be here or how much it is. I've been noticing a lot of that lately. But anyway, we don't need to dwell on that. The third one is known as sloth and torpor. Sloth and torpor.

[16:45]

Instead of concentrating on something, you fall asleep. You'd like some peace and quiet. You know, to concentrate on something, you know, may involve something problematic. You know, there's a certain kind of, when we're actually paying attention to something, going into something, maybe some depth in something, you know, then things are happening at that level that, you know, things can be pretty intense. You know, whether it's a pain or an emotion in your own body, in your own being, or, you know, the person who's in front of you who's upset with you or is making demands on you or the situation. You know, this evening we mentioned how stressful it is to be driving, you know, in traffic jams. Because, like, when I came over from San Francisco,

[17:47]

there was, there had been an accident on a welding rig. So the traffic was backed right up until there. And it's, that tends to be the most stressful. So, one of our kind of responses then is, like, well, why don't I just go to sleep? Because this other is, it's such a strong level of experience. So to experience that is, you know, anyway, it's, you know, you're not going to be able to maintain your usual body in the face of such things. So anyway, one alternative is sleep. And the fourth one is known as excitement and worry. Excitement and worry sort of go together, but it's because it's projecting into the future. And either being excited about the possibilities of the future

[18:47]

or worried about the possibilities of the future. And then the fifth one is known as doubt. And this is the kind of doubt that questions everything. What's the use? Who cares? It's not the kind of doubt which sometimes in Zen Buddhism is, especially it says you need to have great doubt, which is more like the doubt is in the superficial level of things. You doubt the reality that you experience ordinarily and you want to penetrate, to send a fuller picture, a fuller sense of your life. So there's a kind of a doubt which sets aside the experience as you do it, so that you can look at it. Or the kind of doubt that, you know, that's a kind of, so that's a kind of positive kind of doubt. Or, you know, or you could say like, Suzuki Roshi said that

[19:48]

Zen practice is like feeling your way along in the dark. You don't know where you're going and you don't know what's there, so you have to go more slowly and just feel your way along. And you might bump into something and find out what it is. So there's a kind of doubt when you're perceiving your life. You're not knowing where you're going or what you might bump into. So it's rather than doubt, you could call that a kind of openness or receptive kind of quality of feeling your way along. So that's positive, but the doubt is a hindrance, is this is really stupid to be here sitting in meditation. You start to think that and then get up and go. And then where's your concentration? Your awareness is gone. Yeah. So these are the five, and we tend to, we may or may not find any one of these particularly pleasant.

[20:51]

Some of these may be depending on who we are. Sometimes people actually enjoy being joy-sense designers. They're really pleasant. We think they're pleasant. And there's this sort of idea in Buddhism, this is also divided just into three, the greed type, hate type, and delusion type. So the greed type, you walk into a party and look around and you see all the people that you'd like to meet and the food that looks good. Gee, this looks like a great party. And then the hate type walks into the room and goes like, God, these people are so dull and stupid. The food doesn't look good. And the delusion type walks in and goes like, What's going on here? So those are sort of the, you know, if you want to just have three. But we have five in any way. So we may like sense desire or we may not. You know, it may be pleasant or unpleasant.

[21:53]

Or anger is the same way. Some people, you know, really enjoy getting angry. And any one of us may sometimes enjoy getting angry or feel justified in it, and other times we may not like it. And sometimes we may appreciate the fact that we can fall asleep, and other times, you know, we find it thoughtful. So many of these, you know, we may like or not like. And there's not, and we're getting around to the fact that, you know, each and every, well, we'll get around to that. Let me go through one other thing. I'm giving you the quick synopsis of this. Our tendency is to take one and then fight it with another. Okay, so, for instance, you know, if we get angry, then we might get angry about getting angry. And then we might get kind of depressed about having been angry, so we kind of go into, you know, sloth and torpor about the fact that we're angry. And then when we're so involved in sloth and torpor,

[22:55]

then there's some doubt. What's the use? Why bother? You know, and then we get something that's kind of interesting. It's a new sense to say that comes along. Oh, well, this looks pretty good. I think I'll go after that. And then we have a little excitement about whether or not I'm going to get it. And worry, like, maybe I won't get it. You know, and then there's anger when I don't get it. And then there's, you know, or there's depression about not getting it. So there's some tendency to be flitting from one of these to the next because they're all pretty, you know, they all have their kind of juice, electricity. You know, there's a certain kind of, they all have their energy. They all have a certain energy to them, which then tends to take over. And part of the, you know, and then, so in this context, the basic kind of problem that we have is thinking that

[23:56]

the solution is to control my experiences. And we think that the sense desire, anger, and so on, is in the object of my experience rather than me. So if I get angry in traffic, then the solution is not to be in traffic. And if somebody, if some person makes me mad, then don't hang around that person. And if one kind of activity is interesting and engaging, then do that one. And, you know, so we try to, we try in this way to manipulate our experience by manipulating what things we do and what things we don't do and who we see and who we don't see and so on. And so we think that these things are embedded in the object rather than seem that they're embedded in the way that I am relating to the world. And this causes us a lot of problems because it's not possible, right?

[25:01]

The person that you thought you liked, you know, the next minute is telling you something that you didn't want to hear. You know, and the job that seemed like it was interesting next week is so difficult and tiresome and so on. So that the object, and then so we look, when we look closely at things, we realize that in fact these hindrances or problematic experiences are not embedded in the object. So from this point of view, to work on concentration is to take an activity like meditation, say, a simple kind of activity, and then to practice one's concentration on that activity. Then you can take one activity after another to practice your concentration. And actually try to absorb yourself in that activity, whatever it is. You can still do the dishes, or your work, or you can...

[26:16]

And your anger then in a certain sense can be transformed into, you know, clean dishes, or... I can sit with it. You can sit with it and then your anger is transformed into a kind of energy that, you know, in a certain sense can be invigorated. You don't concentrate on... you're concentrating on your breath. You're concentrating on the activity that you're involved in. Not the anger per se. Because that's another thing that tends to happen is if we have anger, we tend to think we have a certain associated behavior that's associated with the emotion. And then we think that the solution is to do that behavior. So with anger the solution is screaming, or hitting, or... You know, there's certain things that you can do in a certain sense to express anger. Yeah, well, you can do that too.

[27:18]

There's... I'm kind of tonight emphasizing a little different approach. That's... there's... One approach is more like you take your awareness and you go into, like, the anger. You go into the anger. You're observing anger. What is anger? And looking into that. And so... And that's the same, like, if you're sitting in meditation and your knees are... And you go into the thing of your knees and say, what is it? Actually you try to experience it very closely. And examine it in some depth. What is it? And with some concentration. And you... There's another way of letting anger be on the outside of you. Observing it as not part of you. Yeah, it's more peripheral. Yes. Not part of you. And then you're...

[28:28]

So then it would be... And then, so in that sense, it's not like you're repressing anger or not being aware of anger, but it's more peripheral. And you're certainly not identifying with it in that sense. And... Because it's possible then too that you can... There's anger, but then if you're continuing with the activity that you're engaged in, that anger is also the possibility of just more energy and intensity in doing what you're doing. And so, you know, there's doing the dishes... There's doing the dishes like this. And after a while, if you start doing... So the anger is getting translated in a certain sense, or transformed into another activity. And then your life is... Your life is more... There's more energy in your life when the anger is able to come through into the activity of whatever you're doing.

[29:28]

If it gets... And so this is why we also say why we talk about being collected. Because if... When you're not collected, then you can be sort of doing the dishes, and then your anger is going off somewhere else. Because your anger is also your intensity and your creativity. And it's going off, looking for some place to be... Something to be intense about. Something to be energetic about. You go too intensely into the dishes. You might... You might break something. You might break something. You might break something. But so you're... So the... But the question is then how to bring... How to bring anger, collect anger, bring anger into your life, rather than have it be something that is always this thing that is, you know, a hindrance. We call it at the start a hindrance, but it's also... You know, in sin we have an expression that hindrances are enlightenment. So you could also say hindrances are your teacher. So the fact of the hindrance is the fact of something that's not collected or not included.

[30:35]

In the sort of habitual way I'm going about things. If I'm going about things like in a kind of... So, for instance, if I'm... If I... You know, I mentioned at the beginning of this time. If I follow my breath as a kind of job or task and I'm not particularly enjoying it, then you might have this... You know, there's some aspect of being that's going off looking for something to enjoy. So if you find... You know, if you find regularly that your awareness is going off somewhere for something to enjoy, what does that say about the way that you were attempting to do things in the first place? That means that... Well, in the first place you sort of were thinking that, you know, you couldn't enjoy your breath, or you couldn't enjoy your work, or you couldn't enjoy being with your kids, or you couldn't enjoy the dishes. So the aspect of concentration is what about, you know, some effort to...

[31:36]

Whatever it is you're doing, have some possibility of enjoyment. Rather than sort of thinking that, you know, defining it ahead of time to say, well, doing the dishes isn't enjoyable, and driving isn't enjoyable, and sitting in meditation isn't enjoyable, and now I'm going to go do something that's enjoyable. And you see, that puts it all... That's our way of thinking that tends to put it in the object. Enjoyment is in the object of the experience rather than in the way I'm going about it. Does that make sense? So, in that sense, the hindrances that are little clues or teachings, something like, how do you... How can you incorporate what is coming up, you know, in a kind of isolation? How do you incorporate that into your being? I mean, how do you re-unpack in your being and express it in your life? And whether it's senses that are... Whether it's anger. And what is it then that you're sort of leaving out, or what is it... So, from a positive point of view,

[32:40]

you know, that's what we talked about in the beginning. From a positive point of view, concentration includes application. And application is like the... You know, another way of talking about anger. In other words, to concentrate on something actually takes a kind of fierceness. There's a kind of fierceness that's necessary. Or after a while, you just sort of, like, go off into the next sort of interesting thing that comes up in your mind. And maybe that over there would be good. And... Or gee, that over there isn't as scary. So you're sort of... We're getting off, you know. And so, to actually focus on something takes a kind of intensity of fierceness, which is the positive side of anger. Does this make sense? So that's application. And then for, you know, sense desire, there's...

[33:40]

You know, the positive side of that is actually enjoying something moment after moment. Something, you know, that you... When you have your tea, that you actually... It's not just tea, but you're... There's this... If you're... There's some awareness, and it's... You know, that you could actually enjoy the tea. Or actually enjoy it. But... There's the inhale, and there's... There's some... There's some possibility of things. You believe the possibility of things, but not the actual experience of joy. You have... The possibility. That you could enjoy. And... It's wonderful, you know, to just breathe. And so, the more you can do that, then the less it is like you're going along and sort of like... Where is the next thing that I can enjoy? You know, the ice cream, or the movie, or the TV, or the app. You know, where's my next fix coming from? How about, you know, just already?

[34:41]

So, this is, you know, the sense desire. I can't remember all of these. But anyway, you get the idea. Yeah. Worry and excitement. Worry and excitement, what else is it called? I can't remember. But I can't remember. I'll check. Yeah.

[35:45]

It's projected into... You're creating your... Or anticipating. Yeah, maybe so. I have a long... I'll look. I was thinking it was... Well, anyway, maybe we'll come up with it. I think this has to do with the quality of these. Although I could be... But... There's some quality here of... Again, rather than projecting into the future for the possible resolution. In my experience now, what about some resolution? You're on the spot. So, this is what I was...

[36:47]

What I think of as a kind of... Being at home. Or settling... Settling down where you are. There's an expression in Zen. To unpack the saddlebags. Take off the blinders and unpack the saddlebags. And... You know, the blinders is the horse with the blinders. And then, you know... There's always this kind of... Place to get to. And then, once you get there, it's like... The idea is once you get there, you could relax now. Right? But then... Of course, what happens is... You know, our tendency is once we get there, then we project... We have a new thing that we project in the future. So... And... We have some tendency to go about things in a certain way. So, if our tendency is... If our way of going about life is to project things...

[37:49]

Places into the future that we could get to. And then we could relax. You know, then we could take off the blinders. But when do you actually take off the blinders and unpack the saddlebags? You're always going to be on the road. So, this is the quality of always being on the road. Always having some place to get to in the future. But actually, when you get there, you still don't unpack the saddlebags and make yourself... You project a new place in the future that you need to get to. So, again, this is pointing to the quality of well... And understanding, then, that... The place in the future is not going to be any different from the place where we are. And so, if you want this quality of unpacking the saddlebags and making yourself at home... Or settling down in some way, or having some kind of ease... Then it's not going to be... You can't... There's no... You know, you'll be holding your breath forever. To get to... The greatest place in the future.

[38:49]

So, what about, in some way, cultivating that quality right where you are? Even though the place where you are doesn't seem like it's necessarily the greatest place to be. And those places over there look like they might be really good. How did Gary Racy tell this story? What did he tell about... He said... You know, the place where you are in heaven... In heaven, there's a hollow tree. And things are going on pretty nicely in heaven. But there's this hollow tree, and there's this voice in the hollow tree that says... Over here. Is that the snake? Yeah, it's like the snake, yeah. Yeah, over here. And then you go... No, no, no, no, it's okay. You know, this is pretty nice. I'm doing alright right here. This is really good. You wouldn't want to miss it.

[39:52]

No, no, no. I'm really enjoying where I am. This is fine. Even though I've run out of tea, it's still pretty nice here. This is better than I ever dreamed of. So anyway, once you go over to the tree, and you look into the hollow tree, that's straight to hell. Straight to the bottom. And so, to actually entertain those things... So those kind of things are the excitement, worry things. The places that you could get to in your life. And what about if I was more this or less that? Or when I buy my house, or when this happens, or when that happens, then everything will work out alright. But then it never does. And what about... I used to do this with Stan, right? If I only sit still for one grade, well, what about when I sit still for a day?

[40:59]

But then that doesn't help. Then you want to sit still for a week. You know? So you can keep... Then that will indicate something, and then I'll really be somewhere when I can do that. So you can keep projecting these things. And so the remedy, or if you find yourself doing a lot of that, the remedy is this quality of coming back to where you are. But at the same time, how do you find some quality of unpacking this out of that? Take up the mind and unpack this out of this. How do you... Even though this isn't necessarily such a hospitable place, this is where you live. This is where we live. You know, in the midst of inhale, exhale, feelings, emotions, thoughts, physical sensations, this is where we actually live.

[41:59]

There's not some other place. So, come back to this place, and find some sense of how do you actually... and make yourself involved in that. So that's that one. So I associate that with that kind of making yourself involved in something, settling down, settling down in something. Settling into your life. And doubt has the quality of reapplying yourself. Also. That it's some indication that you're not... that we're not as deeply engaged in what we're doing as we should be. So it's a kind of repeating application as you reapply yourself. This is also very similar.

[43:00]

I think I may have told you a few weeks ago that when I asked Suzuki Roshi for some advice when I started cooking, he tells me that when you wash the rice, wash the rice. When you cut the carrots, cut the carrots. When you stir the soup, stir the soup. So that's... I think I'm going to mention this in terms of energy, but it's also kind of an aspect of meditation. What you do, what you're doing. And even though there's all these other things that look like they might be giving you something, you're not getting where you are, but unless you find it where you are... You know, we spend a lot of time chasing after some illusions. Places where you can get to where it's going to be better. We've been finding these things where we can't. So this is where I think you can see how meditation can be useful in this context. Because it's a very straightforward way to make this kind of effort.

[44:05]

To concentrate. To be absorbed. To collect yourself. To collect your being. And have some depth in your experience. And then reintegrate. As things come up, you reintegrate them into your meditation. Meditation practice. Meditation is... You're always having things come up and you're always working them back in. Weaving these loose ends that come up and go out somewhere. Weaving those back into your being. Back into your effort. So that's my quick synopsis. Yeah. Well, there's...

[45:19]

Well, those are two different kinds of efforts. And to come back to your breath. And especially, you know, if you can come back to your... That's a very immediate way to do that weaving back in. To come back to your breath because you're... And that will tend to... The fact that you've gone off somewhere and you're doing something then... But that quality still, as you bring... When you bring your awareness back, it's not like you're... It's not like that quality is getting lost. You're actually bringing your awareness back and you're... And as you do that, bringing it back over a period of time, you're developing your concentration. You're actually doing that. Weaving things back in. And then... But then, you know, as you do this over a period of time, I think you'll also find that, in my experiences, that... And I wouldn't worry about it, you know, if you...

[46:19]

If you find yourself stopping to examine what is this about. Particularly things that stay with you. You know, if your initial effort is just to come back to your breath and that is... That is doing this literally. But then, if something is persistent and is over a period of time, you know, and then... And you'll find that then you may need to make a different kind of an effort with it. So, if initially you're starting out in a certain sense of just with your breath and then... These other things are on the periphery and then you come back to your breath and that's bringing these things back to your breath. And you're developing a bigger concentration by doing that. But that may not be... That may not continue to be the answer. So, you may find that you need to make a different kind of investigation. And that's where you may, at some point, find that you want to look at it directly.

[47:24]

Because if you find, you know, if anger becomes predominant in that inner experience, and even though you keep bringing your awareness back to your breath, it keeps, you know... At some point you have... It's something natural that you look. One of the analogies I use is if you have a child who always wants your attention. And you can't always, you know, at some point... You can only say, so long, you know, like, later I'm busy now. After a while, finally say, you know, you have to make a deal. Let me concentrate now and then I'll spend some time with you later. You know, this evening, such and such. And your psyche is like that, you know. And you'll probably need to say, at some point, you know, you'll find that you need to make that kind of... You'll have to look at the thing directly and not just be working right now.

[48:28]

Please be careful. Yeah. Because it's pretty interesting, you know, finally to... You know, it's kind of like... We have to do a kind of translation. You know, our anger is not... Various places of our being, they're not real articulate. So, basically, you know, we take the kind of approach of... Hindrances are not just hindrances. Hindrances are enlightenment or hindrances are your teacher. At some point, you have to... You look, you turn to your teacher and say, what are you trying to tell me? And then you... You may find some words coming or not, you see. Then you can kind of... Then if you start to... If you have that kind of, what are you trying to tell me,

[49:31]

that kind of interest or attention, just that kind of like... The analogy of humanly alone in the dark, what is it, what are you trying to tell me? At some point, you'll find that you make that kind of effort, that kind of... That kind of activity as well is just coming back to you. And they're complementary, actually. Another kind of a way to do this is, I sort of mentioned this last week with mindfulness, but another kind of way to do this is if anger or sense desire or anticipation, planning, if it... If it keeps coming up strongly and there's some aspect of our being that is not getting engaged in meditation, it's usually saying, as I mentioned before, something about the way we were meditating. So we often have some idea,

[50:33]

this is the right way to meditate. And I'm going to do... I'm going to meditate the right way. And then there's these energies that we have in our being, and our being is bigger than that. And we're trying to learn, partly, how do we manage bigger energies than we're used to managing? Right? So at some point, you kind of have to say to these bigger energies that aren't, you know, that aren't somehow included in the right way of meditating. You have to say to them. Their tendency is like, you know, I'd like to go up and hit somebody, or I want to go and yell at somebody or something. You have to say to them, but we're doing meditation now. If you don't like the way I'm meditating, would you show me how you would meditate? You know what I'm saying? You invite anger or sense desire. Would you please do the meditation? Show me how you would do meditation. See? That's the kind of, you know, how we're, you know, becoming a bigger being, and how we grow in that practice. And, as opposed to, you know,

[51:37]

well, I think the thing I need to do now is go back to step out. You don't, you don't, you know, necessarily get a bigger being by going and acting things out, the same way that you do if you invite that kind of bigger energy, you know, into your meditation. And that kind of thing is actually possible. And so, and the reason why we don't, I mean, part of the reason why we don't, all of us have, you know, much more energy, much more vitality, much more vigor, you know, is because the energy at first glance, this bigger energy that's more vital, more creative, more vigorous, is also kind of unmanageable. And it's partly unmanageable because we have such, such strong ideas about the right way to do things, which excludes the unmanageable energies.

[52:39]

And so part of our effort is, we're obviously going to find out how to, we're going to have to find out how to manage what seems to be unmanageable. And so in a simple way, that's inviting, you know, saying to your anger, or desire, would you do the meditation today? Show me how you do it. Well, next week we're going to talk more about these things. What does Suzuki Roshi tell you when he says, don't try to stop your thought, let them stop by themselves? Does that really talk to you now? Mm-hmm. That's the same as saying,

[53:49]

don't try to stop your hindrance, let the hindrance stop by itself. Because basically, if you try to stop the hindrance, you adopt another hindrance to stop it. You try to stop it. And then so, the way to stop it is to get mad at it. Or the way to stop it is, you know, to think about something more pleasant or enjoyable. So, the problem with trying to stop something is that we tend to adopt another one of the hindrances to stop it. So our effort is to, you know, is how we make some effort just to be present and to, you know, to be in our present, to be in the activity, you know, that we're doing right now. In a kind of balanced way. Rather than looking somewhere else for our salvation, or, you know, enlightenment is over there, or, you know, calm is over there, or peace is that way. You know, what about now, right here? You know, right now,

[54:50]

in the thing that I'm doing. Well, I'd like to announce that, once again, that next Thursday, even though it's Thanksgiving, I'll be here. And I've heard that some other people will be here. And just, you know, I'm following my early training, which was, we did these things on holidays too. And it kind of, if you need one, you know, it gives you an excuse to kind of drop out of your family gathering. Or if you don't have a family gathering, you have no friends. You have nothing to do on Thanksgiving, I mean, then this gives you a chance to get together with a few kind of simpatico people. Have a quiet, you know, more or less pleasant evening without the, you know, in place of,

[55:51]

you know, what might have been a family gathering in that case. So in either event, or whatever event, some of us will be here, and you're all welcome to come. So that's my announcement for tonight. Does anybody else have any announcements? Right requests? Does that mean it's time for me to talk? So,

[56:52]

as I mentioned earlier, the subject for this evening is wisdom, wisdom in the Buddhist context. I think sometimes, you know, that people kind of wonder, and I certainly wondered when, earlier on, when I was learning about Buddhism, it's kind of like, well, what's it good for? It all, you know, it sounds kind of like, well, it doesn't, you know, exactly sound like that useful, you know, this Buddhist wisdom stuff. You know, like, I mean, I certainly came to Buddhism with some idea that if I practice Buddhism, I'll get more of the good things than fewer of the worse things. I mean, doesn't that make sense, that I ought to be, you know, that spiritual practice ought to be good for something like that? You know, like you can accumulate more of the nice ones and then get rid of more of the bad ones? Something like that? Or you could, you know, you could ward off disease and ill health

[57:53]

and traumatic experiences and, you know, with kind of your magical wand of, you know, Buddhist practice. Anyway, once you practice for, you know, more than about six months, you get, usually it takes at most six to eight months to get disabused of the notion that Buddhism would be good for that sort of thing. You know, there's a certain dissolution that sets in after six to eight months that maybe it's not all that good for what I thought it was going to be good for. But these kind of ideas keep continuing, you know, in their own little subtle way. That, well, maybe it's not good for quite what I thought it was, but it still must be good for something, some way. You know, somebody asked the Dalai Lama once who, you know, had been practicing for a number of years, how long do I have to practice before I begin to notice some results or, you know,

[58:54]

good effects from my spiritual practice and apparently the Dalai Lama thought about it for a while and he said, well, you should wait at least ten years but you might have to wait twenty. But to really see the effect you should look over several lifetimes. But if you just look at the Dalai Lama who's, you know, from all that we can tell has been practicing over several lifetimes, you know, and in this lifetime still he got kicked out of his country and his country got overrun with the Chinese, et cetera, et cetera, you know, and he still had to endure all of that in spite of his lifetimes of, you know, intensely devoted practice. So, it's a little,

[59:54]

it's not, you know, exactly clear in that sense what Buddhist wisdom is good for but we'll kind of, I'll try to kind of, you know, give you some kind of clue about it and a few little suggestions or ideas about what it might be good for. But it doesn't seem to have the kind of all-encompassing power or capacity that we'd like it to have. I mean, basically it would be really nice if we could have more control over our body, mind, and life and experiences and that would be really nice and that, you know, that all of our wishful thinking could in some way come true and that we wouldn't, you know, I mean, I still find this, you know, I find it sometimes, I don't know, you know, it's the littlest things. You know, I put something down

[60:54]

on the table but, you know, it's on a piece of paper and it turns out there's some little thing underneath it and it's a cup of tea and I let go of it and it falls over. You know, and it's sort of like, can't that teacup try a little bit harder to kind of, I try hard, you know, to be there for other people and do these various things. I try hard. Can't the teacup try a little bit harder to not fall over under these trying circumstances? I mean, you know, I would think that, you know, because of my spiritual practice, things like this would, you know, little things anyway, maybe not the big things but how about a few little things like this? But even at that level, you know, it doesn't seem like teacups try particularly harder to remain upright. And there's all kinds of, every day I have little things that happen to me like this, you know. So, but it would be, that's the kind of thing that would be really nice, you know,

[61:55]

if Buddhism could do this in some way, but it doesn't seem to work like that. And, you know, people still insult you and, you know, they don't seem to notice that you've been practicing spiritual practice all those years. You know, they're not, you know, they're not bowing down at your feet. You know, whatever you might have thought that Buddhism could do, it doesn't happen. Anyway, to come back to these three, you know, that wisdom in a certain classical, traditional sense, in early Buddhism, wisdom can be, is this seeing clearly these three marks that all conditioned existence has these three marks. Okay, impermanence, suffering, and no-self. So, no-self, that's a short word for shorthand or emptiness. And we'll talk more, I know I'm going to, I'm going to get to that. But I'm going to go through briefly the first two and that the,

[62:55]

the impermanence, whatever comes into existence goes out of existence. And, we can look at these three marks of conditioned existence, there's also something known as the four perverted views, or four, perverted is, of course, a translation, so it's the four upside-down views. So, these, this wisdom is, from that point of view, intended as an antidote for these four upside-down views that we tend to have as people, as human beings. Okay? So, they're just the opposite of these things, basically, that we tend to look to establish some permanence in our life. Where, where it's essentially impossible to establish that permanence. So, what we set out to establish the permanence, you know, whether it's a nice place to live, a permanent relationship, a continuing good health, a continuing positive mind,

[63:56]

a mind that we like, we set out to continue, to keep going and generating a mind, a body, a being, a self that we like, that I like, that's the one I want. So, we set out to have this permanent, ongoing kind of thing happen. but Buddhism says, but that's not possible to do. See? But we set out to do it. We have the idea, since we don't look very closely at what's really possible and what's not possible, we set out to establish permanence. And secondly, we set out to establish what is, what could be called ease, a condition, a situation of ease. Again, in a universe where this isn't possible, where inherently the condition of life, there's something missing. There's some gap. There's some, at least, you know, the uncertainty

[64:56]

of the fact that things are changing, there's always that uncertainty. We don't know what will happen next. And there's always a little anxiety about that. So that, just inherently, there's a little kind of underlying inside of it. But you can see how this searching for some permanence and searching for some ease and the situation not making that possible, but our problem will be accentuated when we set out to do that. I mean, the more we try to have permanence where we can't have permanence, the more we're aware of this kind of problem, the more frustrating it is. You have your heart set on establishing permanence, and then it's even more devastating when it turns out it's not permanent and we lose something that we really wanted to keep. So, partly this wisdom is so that we don't set out with such an

[65:57]

inaccurate idea in the first place, right? Wait a second. So the third one, the third mark is known as emptiness, that things are empty of own being. This includes, you know, person, and it includes objects and things and so on. And I think the simplest way I know to talk about this is to you know, take something like, you know, take one of the dates, right? And if the date, you know, if we look at what was your experience of eating the date, right? Does the date have a particular nature? Well, when you eat it, actually many things can happen. Maybe most of the time you have a pleasant experience, but if you're already full and you eat the date, it wouldn't be this pleasant

[66:58]

as when you were hungry and you ate the date. So what's the nature of the date? Is the date pleasant or is it unpleasant? It's the date. So, the thing is that the experience that we have of a date is going to be very different moment after moment depending on, you know, so many different conditions and factors. So, we can't say particularly that a date has, and probably, you know, if you ate something bitter first and then you ate the date, it would taste even sweeter. And there are things that would be sweeter than a date if you ate the date after that, it wouldn't taste as sweet. So in one sense, yes, we can say there's kind of factors, you know, but it's all variable, right? You know, the experience of what is a date, our experience of that changes depending on whether we're hungry or not hungry. And,

[67:59]

you know, Buddhism even says it depends initially on the fact that you have a body. You have to be alive. Otherwise, you don't get any experience of a date. But, you know, so many things in our life, we think that it's inherent in the object. So if you want sweetness in your life, you have to get the date. Because the sweetness is in the date. Or, you know, if you see a painting you like, and you go, and you were in a museum or you were in a gallery and you see a painting you like, and you have some special experience, it's a very powerful experience. So can you buy the painting and take it home and then have that experience day after day the rest of your life? Probably not. So, was that experience in the painting

[68:59]

or was it in you? So we tend to, whether it's a painting or a date or a thought or a feeling or an idea, we tend to think that whatever that brings to us is in the object. We don't acknowledge our own participation in the event and all the factors that are going on. So in other words, Buddhism says that the date is not just a date but a date is everything coming into existence together. So the date comes into existence with a consciousness and an eye seeing the date or with a mouth and sense organ of taste and awareness tasting the date. And so all those things arise together and then we call that date. But we don't say that's consciousness and we don't say it's sense organ. We just say that's date. So in this way

[70:00]

we get confused because we do the same thing you know, with the feeling. And we say the feeling, you know, this angry, this anger and then this anger makes me angry or this depression depresses me. It does that to me. And so we, in this way we give objects, by giving objects their own being like this and positing them to be independent from us then we give them this power over our life and over our mind. Sure. Yes. Yes.

[71:22]

Yes. [...] Well, I've been talking about form is emptiness and the next expression is emptiness is form. So the form, it's true, there is a form of things and there is

[72:24]

continuity and at the same time when we look at it from a different perspective there's not exactly something there that we can get hold of and pin down moment after moment. So, there'll be moments in our life when in a certain sense the teaching isn't there. We forget all about all the Buddhist teaching we've ever heard. So, the teaching is something that is alive in each one of us when it's alive in us and in a certain sense that is, that means that when we receive our experience as though it was a teaching then the teaching is alive in us. But there are times in our life when we go hey,

[73:24]

forget this. No, I didn't want this. I'm not interested in this. I'm not going to have anything to do with this. This couldn't in any way be a teaching. And, but then we might look at that experience the next moment and say well that's an interesting teaching. Look at the way I was just looking at things. Uh, so, both are true. You know, the appearance of continuity and permanence and then the lack of there being something really there continuing moment after moment in a in a in a real in a real way. And yet it's continuing in a real way. I mean we have so that's all I I mean you know it's so that's the way it goes.

[74:25]

I've tried to well, anyway, it seems to me like a stream. Yeah, you could describe it as a stream. It's a flow and it's not exactly the same. So it's not going to be exactly the same. You can't cross the same river for it. Right. But, that's the way it comes that's the way I experience the, the teaching that goes back as Peter says about 2500 years. It's a stream that comes from ancient sources. You can still hear the sound but that's different. You know,

[75:48]

somebody is a difficult person or somebody is a friendly person and then we decide and then on the basis of that we treat them that way. On the basis of what we've experienced and concluded then we treat myself or somebody else as though that were true. But as we know I'm not always this kind of person you know, I'm not always a difficult person. Somebody else isn't always a friendly person. What we act as though it's always true. And then we take a lot and because it's so hard for us to change our belief, right, how do we ever get enough evidence to change our, our thought about who I am or who somebody else is. How will we ever get enough evidence? And so, from that point of view it's like I was saying earlier in a certain sense. From that point of view then,

[76:50]

you know, it's one of my favorite passages in, in Japanese Sokura Zen. It's Dogen's passage about, he says, someone gets in a boat and goes out in the ocean until there's no land in sight. He looks around and the ocean looks circular. As far as the eye can see, there's a lot. But he says, the ocean isn't just circular or square. In addition to the apparent circularity and angularity, there are infinite characteristics which we just don't happen to observe right now. In other words, the ocean doesn't have a fixed nature. Some days, you know, we're gonna see a big and stormy ocean and other days a calm ocean some days. So, and the ocean is gonna appear differently to different creatures. And when we're in a boat on the ocean,

[77:52]

it's one experience and when we're bobbing up and down and about to drown it's another experience. To be sure. And so, Dogen says that when you yes, there's a certain you may have a particular awareness of the ocean right now but in addition to that, the characteristics that you presently observe you should remind yourself that the ocean is boundless. Infinite characteristics and boundless virtual. That you're just not aware of right now. And this is true also of each one of us. So this is, you know, rather, I like this way of talking about emptiness because it's rather poetic and graphic. And that's very simple in that sense. You know that when we come to some tentative conclusion, this is the way it is, there's always

[78:52]

something else to it. And yet, we have to act on the basis of our knowledge as it presently is and at the same time acknowledge that there's something greater than that, there's more to it than that. So if we always treat, you know, a friendly person as though they were friendly they might surprise us and hurt us. And it might be, you know, what is that expression that's always used? You know, you get betrayed. But that's partly our own, you know, our own looking at things and taking it at face value and not understanding that there's more to it than that. The betrayal is just that we didn't look that carefully. And so in that sense, you know, it's kind of like as we go through life we're pretty much bound to have various betrayals and, you know, people and things will betray us and our own bodies

[79:52]

and minds betray us. And it's part of what happens as part of our becoming aware of this kind of truth. That there's more to it than what we just saw today right now. And so from the point of view of the upside-down views, you know, we try to establish some permanent existence or self or being where there isn't one. And we think as though there is this kind of existence. So part of this is also pointing out that, you know,

[80:53]

each one of us, our own nature is in Buddhism sometimes referred to particularly in Zen Buddhism, you know, we each have what is called Buddha nature. And Buddha nature means we don't have an inherent nature. And we can't really say that I'm a greedy person or I'm a hateful person and that's it. Or I'm a depressed person or I'm a miserable person or I'm a shy person or I'm a great person or I'm a wonderful person. But that our nature is no fixed nature. So this is what it means, Buddha nature. So in one sense, you know, this should be, this is a, at least in one sense, meant to be kind of a verdict, right? Because otherwise

[81:53]

we tend to think, well, I'm this kind of person and now I have to set out, you know, I'm not a very good person so now I'm going to have to do all these good things to show myself and the world that I really am a good person and I'm going to have to get other people convinced of this and then have them convince me of it. You know, if I can convince enough people out there that I'm really a lovable person then, you know, maybe they can convince me that it's all right to, you know, that I don't have to go on in some way rejecting myself. Yeah, that would be a way to look at it and then there's also ways that nobody's seen us yet. So we're at least as, as many as, you know, the others who see us. Yeah,

[82:57]

depending on the relationship and then, you know, you yourself. Right? We'll see ourselves differently from day to day. But if we think, you know, there's something actually there it's much more, you know, that there's someone actually there and then, you know, that has these characteristics and then we somehow have to fix this person or, you know, we don't have to fix the person. Either way, if you think there's something there and you have to fix it or you don't have to fix it you've got a certain kind of problem. Because if you have to fix it how are you ever going to change your idea? How do you get enough evidence? And if you don't have to fix it then you go like, hey, I'm fine, what's your problem? And this will tend to lead to, you know, in the long run at least, to disharmonious relationships. In the short run you'll find you can, you know, those kind of people who are really good at that can get together a group of people who agree. You know,

[83:58]

yes, I've got a problem. You don't. But tell me what to do. You know, so that I can, you know, I'll work on my problem. And, see, so then you get those two kinds of people together and they often have sort of like spiritual groups so to speak. Or, even potential movements or something like that. At least, again. You know, and then there's things there that, you know, that people may not be experiencing. That's interesting. I'm convinced though. Just as, you know, the analogy with the ocean. There must be more to it. Because we have such limited senses. Our senses are only,

[84:58]

we only experience what we see and smell and taste and touch. Seems like there must be, you know, more range of possible things than even that side of the senses. Even just in that. And it's mysterious then. You know, we can't, it would be mysterious and hard to say what of what we experience is in the object and what, you know, did it awaken in me. Well, this kind of,

[86:13]

you know, so wisdom is also intended then as a kind of antidote to what are considered to be the three roots of unwholesome existence. The three roots, of course, are greed, anger, and delusion. So the basis of the three roots is delusion, the basis of all three is delusion, and the basic delusion is that we could control our state of mind, this is the way I state the basic delusion. We could control our mind by controlling the objects. Because, so that way, if you want a particular kind of mind, you go after the object that is going to give you that mind, whether it's a cigarette, or a cup of tea, or a bowl of ice cream, or a person, or a love affair, or you know, you go after the object out there

[87:18]

in the world that is supposed to provide you with that experience that you wanted. And the other, the opposite of that is you try to get rid of, we try to get rid of the things that we think are the things that we don't want to embed it in. So we say to our mental states or our thoughts, you know, get out of here, I don't want you around, I don't like being in this way. And we say that to people, and objects, and sensory experiences that we don't like, stop! Because you're ruining my state of mind, you're ruining my well-being, I don't like this. Now obviously, you know, we have to, you know, it makes sense that as a feeling, you know, and a sentient being, so to speak, you know, we're going to have to control what comes in to our experience. Some things are going to come into experience and, you know, would destroy us if we really

[88:21]

let them in. So we should, we need to do this. And yet, you see, the problem is that we get carried away with it. And we take this whole level or sense of what is real to these, to some extreme, and then we set out with this kind of inappropriate strategy, this basic delusion that we could actually do this. So again, to carefully observe one's experience, because you're basically, one is basically seeing what is possible and what's not possible, what is wholesome and what is not wholesome, what I can do and what I can't do. And so it's a little bit like, you know, that what's got to be such a popular expression is, God give me the courage to change the things I can change, to accept the things I can't change, and the wisdom to know the difference. So Buddhism has a very similar sense of wisdom, which are the things you can change and which

[89:25]

are the things you can't change. So wisdom is then seen as the basic kind of antidote, seen clearly. It is seen as the basic, the principal antidote to delusion or another, you know, finally all, Buddhism goes back not to sin, but to what is called ignorance. In other words, not seeing things clearly, not seeing things carefully. So setting out to do something we can't be done, because we haven't observed carefully enough that we can't be done. Setting out to accumulate, you know, to have a mind that I like moment after moment, a mind that's my mind, the one I like to think of as me.

[90:27]

And my experience is when I set out to have that mind moment after moment, something happens to it. And when I was first practicing Buddhism, I thought I could do this, I thought I could, you know, I thought the point of Buddhist practice was to maintain the improved mind moment after moment. You know, I mean, I sort of, you know, I think we all sort of do this to some extent, but I'm a certain kind of person, in a certain sense, you know, tentatively speaking, right? I would say, I mean, I'm not a real outgoing kind of person, right? Comparatively to other people, generally speaking, I'm not especially outgoing. And so I got, and I kind of like, you know, sitting around, not doing anything, right? And then I found this group of people who were doing just the thing that I liked.

[91:33]

Only now, it wasn't just me, you know, but this was Zen. So now, to be me is to be Zen. You know, so this is a good feeling. You know, to know that the way I am, you know, can now be authorized. It's really the Zen way to be, you know, to be contained and controlled, you know, sort of like what we think of. And then, of course, you know, by now I can see that a lot of this sort of thing is not, you know, it's not especially Zen even, it's just sort of Japanese. You know, the idea of Japanese culture that we have. And it's, you know, it's true, you know, no particular outward expression of emotion, right? And just doing things, punching into things, interacting with people, but, you know, and then, but, you know, no outward expression of emotion. You see all these pictures of, you know, Zen teachers, you know, this serenity and calm and, you know, they're not disturbed. So I thought, well, that's the way to be, right?

[92:36]

So then I tried to make my mind like that moment after moment, right? How well does it work? So as long as you're kind of strong and on top of it, you know, you've got a chance. But, you know, unfortunately what they do in Zen practice, they make you stay up late and get up early. So there comes a day when you're tired. You're a little too tired to maintain the approved, or what you think of as the ideal mind or the mind that I should keep and have moment after moment. And then something sneaks in, you know. Get a little tired and there's anger. And there's depression and there's these other things and they sort of, and the more you set up a mind that is the right one, the good one, the one I want, the Zen one, then the more, whatever you've done, you've set up something to be attacked. And, you know, and then the more you get other experiences,

[93:37]

you know, my sense of it is now I'm suffering a defeat to end up with a mind that I didn't invite. It got me when I was weak or tired or hungry. And then I go, but that's not me. I was overcoming anger. That's not me. So then what do you do? Then you can say, at some point, if you want, what I did for a while was I identified with the anger. That's me. Rather than saying, you know, oh, I'm not an angry person. No, then why not identify with the anger, right? That's me. I'm angry. Well, I did that for a while, plus I already know it. After a while the teachers start to talk to me. The other students start to talk to me. Right? One day Suzuki Roshi said to me,

[94:42]

you can be angry if you want, but don't. I thought that was, at first, you know, it was such a relief. I mean, I didn't want anybody telling me how to be, right? So it was nice that he said, you can be angry if you want. So just when you relax, then there's this kind of little, you know, it gets a little soft in the stomach or something, but don't. And then after that, Kadagir Roshi talked to me and he said, you know, this is a monastery and people have noticed that your anger is disturbing other people. And I said, well, it's disturbing other people. They'll have to learn to live with it, won't they? This is when you don't need to, you know, do anything. You know, that you're okay, you know, all the time. So I said, well, they'll have to get used to it. He said, this is, you know, the point in the monastery,

[95:45]

you have to live in peace and harmony with others. You'll have to do something about this. Why do I have to do something about it? They should do something about it. To live in peace and harmony with me. And I said, you know, I'm just being sincere. If there's anger, you know, I'm going to be angry. And this didn't get me very far. Kadagir Roshi finally said, if you ever knew Kadagir Roshi, he's in a certain way very soft and he's very sincere. But there's a point where it's very definite. But it's partly that he's so sincere. He said, Ed, I'm giving you a piece of advice. Again, it was kind of like, you can take it or leave it. But I think you probably better take it. It wasn't really like he was threatening to kick me out, you know, if I didn't take it.

[96:50]

But I finally consented that probably I could learn something about it. So what are you going to do? Do you identify with the anger, that's me? Or do you say, no, that's not me, I was overcome with anger. But neither of those is quite right. Because you're also somebody who's not angry. And somebody who's not identifying with the anger. You're also somebody who can see who's not either of those people. The person identifying with me, I'm not an angry person. And the person who identifies with the anger, God, it feels great. No righteous anger. There's also somebody who's not either of those. There's also somebody who's aware of those and is not taken in by those. And so we're also that person. Well, I think it makes a difference.

[98:06]

I don't think either of those is a particularly good strategy. To identify with a person who's not an angry person or to identify with the anger. The more appropriate strategy in the light of seeing that there's no inherent nature is that you don't identify with being not an angry person. You don't identify with anger. That you don't identify with either of those. From the viewpoint of emptiness or wisdom, it would be appropriate not to identify myself, me, as being either of those. When anger comes along, you relate. Then you're in the world of anger and you relate to that. But it doesn't have to do with, I have to get rid of this anger because I'm not an angry person because I don't want it around. And you're not going, well, damn it, I'm going to tell the world how angry I am. And I'm going to make sure that they're aware of it. So, that means that you're not doing either of those things then.

[99:13]

And you're finding a kind of more spacious way to have anger where you're not involved with that sense of identifying. Where the Buddhist way then is to observe it as it goes through you. Well, there's the Buddhist way and there's the Buddhist way and there's the Buddhist way. I mean, you know, practically speaking, we have to, each one of us, find out for ourselves what to do on the occasion that something is happening. And if we're too involved at that point with, I'm going to do it the Buddhist way, now, you know, we get into a certain kind of identifying. And a certain kind of, you know, like, am I doing it the Buddhist way, am I not doing it the Buddhist way? But what about just the way that you do it? I mean, at some point the Buddhist way should be, has something to do with my real life. So it has to come back to, you know, my real, deep being, my life.

[100:21]

Because if Buddhism isn't about that, you know, I mean, that's what we're trying to find out. And so at some point it gets, you know, where we can say what we want about the Buddhist way to do it, which, you know, we can say it, but then I want to be careful and bring it also back to, we're just, you know, when anger comes, we do our best, you know, to in some sense, you know, make use of it, to be free of it. And, you know, one of the expressions is to not be turned by it, to turn anger rather than be turned by anger. You know, to not be caught by it in some sense. And that's what we, you know, but however we, you know, we can say that, for each one of us, how would we say that? You know, what do you want to do when anger comes? What would you like to do? What is your deep desire to do?

[101:23]

Well, I would say something like, I don't want to be caught by it, I don't want to be turned by it, I want to make use of it in some way. And, as we were talking last week or so, you know, there's something inherent in anger, which is, although it looks at first as a hindrance, there's something in there that we have, that has, you know, there's some teaching for us if we can make use of it, and if we can meet it in some open and honest way, then there's something there which can help us in our life. But that doesn't happen if we identify with it, with anger, or if we identify with the person who might never have anger, I'm not going to have anything to do with anger. So we have to find some other way. Q. So actually each one of us is almost like a third party, not a person of any kind. I haven't heard anything from anyone.

[102:29]

Not a good time, not a good experience, not a good life. Have you changed? Not as a person of any kind. I'll say. Yeah, it's funny, isn't it? Well, I don't know about exactly, you know, there's different characters in Chinese or Japanese, some are like, you know, empty sky, or clear sky, or just space. But you could also, the other side of emptiness, as Marian was pointing out, is that each thing, like the paper, is everything arising. We're also, we're everything arising. Well, Nate.

[103:40]

Well, I can't think of any other. You know, the fuller, the emptiness is a kind of shorthand, because it, you know, more accurately means that each phenomena is empty of own being. That, you know, whether it's anger, that anger doesn't actually have a particular nature. You know, that is invariably there. When anger arises, there's no particular thing that's always there. So it's kind of like saying there's no absolute. But, at some point, you have to be careful about that. So that is the problem. Well, in a way, all of this is to say that,

[105:29]

you know, if we do want to have any peace in our life, or calmness, or serenity, or equanimity, or tranquility, you know, this cannot be dependent on our control over phenomena. You know, that we get only the good experiences and not the bad ones, and isn't that great? Now I can be really calm. You know, so in a way this is saying that, you know, if you want calm, or tranquility, or peacefulness, you're going to have to find it however disturbing it looks like life is on the surface. And this is some reassurance to say that, even though on the surface things may appear to be a particular way, there's still the possibility of some peace and serenity, you know, in your life. Because what the appearance of things, that is not fixed, inherently fixed, permanently. You know, because we tend to think that my peace or my calm is dependent on my control of experiences,

[106:36]

and then, you know, inherently that means that we set out to, you know, get the good experiences and not have the bad ones, and then that kind of, you know, there's a kind of tightness to that. There's a kind of uneasiness. What's going to happen if I get the bad ones? There's an inherent anxiety there. So equanimity, if I may, has something to do with receiving what comes, and not having that kind of intention to try to make it a certain way, the way that I like. And finding, you know, it's like, it's a little bit like, you know, even things that might not appear edible, we find some way to prepare them. And there are other things that we see, even after some, you know, observation, we can't do anything with that. We can't eat it. It's not something to put in my mouth. I have to put it over here. You know, I have to set this aside. I can't take it. I can't eat it. But to find out what to do with each thing, which on the surface appears one way,

[107:41]

we have to, you know, look at it in some bigger way than that to find out appropriately how to handle it in a bigger way. There's a, there's a Ruby poem about emptiness. I have my Ruby book here. If I have my Ruby book, I can read it to you. If I don't have my Ruby book, I have to do it by hand. Make it up. Here's a poem to end the evening. This world which is made of our love for emptiness, prays to the emptiness that blanks out existence. Existence, this place made from our love for that emptiness. Yet somehow comes emptiness. This existence goes. Prays to that happening over and over.

[108:45]

For years I pulled my own existence out of emptiness. I didn't want emptiness. Then one swoop, one swing of the arm, that work is over. Free of who I was, free of presence, free of mountainous wandering, dangerous fear, hope. This here and now mountain is but a tiny piece, a piece of straw blown off into emptiness. Remind you that this is the ocean not having a particular characteristic. This particular characteristic of this moment right now is a piece of a piece of straw blown off into emptiness. These words I'm saying so much begin to lose meaning. You've noticed that, right? Existence, emptiness, mountain, straw, words and what they say, swept out the window, down the slope of the road. Okay. Be well in your hearts.

[109:55]

Even if everything doesn't go just the way you want.

[110:00]

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