Today, I have some feeling of what I would like to talk about, but I don't know that how I talk about it is so well organized or thought out, but I will see what happens as I try to talk about it, and you will see. Today, I feel a little bit more anxious than usual about, because of this, I feel a little more anxious than usual about giving a talk I have a feeling that perhaps I will disturb your great calm in sitting, or from sitting, and that my words will distract you from your practice. But then I also think if your calm

[01:13]

and practice is so concentrated, you probably won't be disturbed by some idle talk. And I also think if my words offend you, please cut off your ears, something like that. Can we just plug them up? Or as the saying goes, watch them in the sound of the Kasaira Creek, or Karbagar Creek, or whatever it is out there. I'm still reading poetry by Kabir, so I thought I would tell you another one that seemed

[02:20]

appropriate. This is the beginning of one, and it goes like this. You know in his poetry, he uses the expression, the guest, sometimes. I don't want to talk about what he means, you'll get the idea from the poem. The guest is inside you, and also inside me. We are all, excuse me, the guest is inside you, and also inside me. You know the sprout is

[03:24]

hidden inside the seed. We're all struggling, and none of us has gone very far. Let your arrogance go, and look around inside. Let your arrogance go, and look around inside. The blue sky opens out farther and farther. The daily sense of failure comes to an end. The damage

[04:34]

I have done to myself fades. A million suns come forward with light when I sit firmly in that place. The guest is inside you, inside you, and inside me. You know the sprout is hidden inside the seed. We're all struggling, none of us has gone very far. Let your arrogance go, and look around inside. The blue sky extends farther and farther. The daily sense of failure falls away. The damage I have done to myself fades. A million suns come forward with light when I sit firmly in that place.

[06:02]

I wanted to tell you another poem too, so I'll go ahead and tell you now while we're on the subject. Don't go outside your house to look for flowers. My friend, don't bother with that excursion. Inside your body there are flowers. Each flower has a thousand petals. That will do for a place to sit. Sitting there you will have a glimpse of beauty inside the body and out of it, before garden and after garden. Don't go outside your house to look for flowers. My friend, don't bother with that excursion. Inside your body there are flowers. Each flower has a thousand petals.

[07:43]

That will do for a place to sit. Sitting there you will have a glimpse of beauty inside the body and out of it, before garden and after garden. Don't go outside your house to look for flowers. My friend, don't bother with that excursion. Inside your body there are flowers. Each flower has a thousand petals. That will do for a place to sit. Sitting there you will have a glimpse of beauty inside the body and out of it, before garden and after garden.

[09:16]

Don't go outside your house to look for flowers. My friend, don't bother with that excursion. Inside your body there are flowers. Each flower has a thousand petals. That will do for a place to sit. Don't go outside your house to look for flowers. Inside your body there are flowers. Each flower has a thousand petals. That will do for a place to sit. With what we think of as reality, a reality such as my legs hurt, I'm not a very good Zen student, I should be more concentrated. I wish this period of sitting would end and various thoughts about what might be better to do or things that have happened.

[11:03]

Or what kind of person I am. Things would be different if I could just sit still. What other people must think of me. Thank you. [...]

[12:28]

Thank you. [...]

[13:41]

Thank you. What we see as water can be seen. And Dogen says, raises the question then, do we see, is there one object that various beings see differently? Or is it that we've mistakenly thought that there is one object?

[14:49]

Are there various, is there various objects that people see, various beings see differently? How is it that we've concluded there's a one object, there must be a one object. And if there is a one object, what would be the nature of that one object? That various beings see differently. Thank you.

[16:22]

Thank you. What kind of person am I? What kind of person are you? And at various times we do various things and we can say, oh I must be a good person, a bad person, a good sense student, a bad sense student. I must be a greedy person, I must be unenlightened, I must be enlightened.

[17:25]

We make various observations and come to various conclusions. And is there one, is there some being that we see in various ways at various times? And must be a certain way based on what we observe. Or is each, is each time, are those different objects, a different self? So about water, Dogen says, if you examine in this way, you, one must conclude that water has no original nature and no inherent nature.

[18:44]

And is not wet or dry, is not earth, water, air or fire, is not form, smell, taste, touch. And maybe at this point we could say, the guest is inside you, the guest is inside me. This is a guest that we don't know who it is or what it's like. Even though we can see it, we can see the guest in a particular way right now, we don't really know.

[19:51]

There's supposed to be, there's said to be a place, I don't know, one of the rivers in China, where there's some rapids, there's a three-tiered rapid. And in the time when the peach blossoms bloom in the spring, it's said that the fish who go up the river and can leap the three tiers of the rapids become dragons. They grab onto the clouds and seize the fog and fly away. And their tails are burned off and they become dragons and fly away. And then there's many fish who don't make it up the three-tiered rapids and fall back. In one of the verses in the book of records it says, well again I'm not going to say exactly what it says, but the verse in the commentary, I'll tell you what I get is the idea of it.

[21:34]

It's something like this. Even if they become, the fish, even if they become dragons, this is still mere talk. And if they become dragons, this has nothing to do with seizing clouds, with grabbing clouds and seizing the fog. Why is it that the fish who fall back become discouraged? And maybe sometimes when you sit, you will be like a dragon, you will leap up the rapids.

[23:04]

And you will soar. But if you think, at last I'm a dragon, that will be just talk. And you say, but look at what I can do, I can grab the clouds and seize the fog. Still, it's just talk. But what does it have to do, finally, with original nature, which doesn't come and doesn't go? I have a guess, it's inside you and inside me.

[24:16]

And what about the fish that fall back? Why is it they become discouraged? So you may fall back, when you sit you may fall back. And you look for some quiet beach, quiet sandy beach out of the rushing waters to rest. And then if you think, oh I'm still just a poor fish, again it's just talk. And you say, but look at what I can do, finally, with original nature, which doesn't come and doesn't go?

[25:48]

And you say, but look at what I can do, finally, with original nature, which doesn't come and doesn't go? So what will you, what shall we depend on? What shall we turn to? What difference does it make? Whether you're a dragon or a fish. And if you get involved in wanting to be a dragon rather than a fish. You know, it's a kind of impossible task, even for those who actually become dragons.

[27:16]

Because it's very tempting if you become a dragon to think, oh I'm a dragon now and I don't have to look around inside anymore. And that way you, pretty quickly, even though you protest, you probably fall back to being a fish. You know. The price of success. I wanted to think of something funny to talk about today, but, you know, so we could all laugh.

[28:33]

I don't seem to have thought of much that's funny. I keep thinking, you know, Norman Cousins, when he had that, he got some strange virus of the nerves or something. When he was in the Soviet Union and came back to the United States and he was so sick and the doctors, he couldn't walk and he was crippled and doctors didn't give him long to live. And he said about curing himself, most of you probably know about this, he said about curing himself with laughter and vitamin C. And while he was in the hospital he read books, he read Ogden Nash poetry and some other kinds of comic books or books about, with jokes. And then he would rent movies. So he used to watch Candid Camera.

[29:34]

I think Alan Funt, who was the narrator or whatever of MC, Candid Camera was a friend of his. So he got all these old copies of Candid Camera which he would watch in the hospital. At some point I think he got released to his house. But he'd watch Candid Camera and Laurel and Hardy and Charlie Chaplin. And he said that he was, you know, he used to be, he was the editor of the Society Review and one of the things he studied a lot was medicine. And so he was quite convinced that all these painkillers that were prescribed and given to people were, you know, actually caused pain in the long run. And the effect on the body was not good and not healing. And was more destructive than the pain.

[30:41]

And he discovered in his therapy, in his convalescing, he said that one small laugh was good for five minutes of pain-free rest. And that a belly laugh was good for half an hour. So I think maybe, sometimes I think, well we should sit here and try to tell each other jokes while we're sitting fastened so that the pain in our legs won't go away. It's not working. I get it. Anyway, I'm going to try it. I'm going to try it today. Okay.

[31:55]

Okay. Okay. Okay.

[33:24]

Okay. Maybe if it was a Zen poem instead of a poem by Kabir or if it was a do-it-yourself poem, we might say, treat each thing that arises as a guest. When you see yourself as a dragon, treat the dragon as a guest.

[35:02]

Or treat the fish who's discouraged as a guest. So you can, you know, sometimes they, I used to be given this advice when I was at Tassajara. Was I ever at Tassajara? When was I ever at Tassajara? Anyway, there was a period of time where I was very angry. And people used to come up to me like, even though they were standing right in front of me, they would look at me like they were looking around the corner of a building to see what kind of mood I was in. Or like they were getting ready to duck, just in case. So people used to give me various pieces of advice about what to do.

[36:18]

And one of the pieces of advice was, well, you can invite the guest in, but don't serve him tea. So anyway, they're all nice pieces of advice. I got a girl where she called me into a dog sign and said, you know, people are very concerned about you. Oh, really? Me? I wonder why that is. You know, they're concerned because you're angry so much of the time. And it's disturbing to them. And I said, well, too bad. You know, I feel angry, so what am I supposed to do?

[37:22]

Shouldn't I be true to myself? If I feel angry, am I supposed to suppress it or something? What am I supposed to do? I want to realize the truth. Well, you know, this is very hard on other people. In the Zen monastery, we should try to harmonize with one another. And this is what we do here in the Zen monastery. Well, they can just harmonize with my anger. Well, anyway, this went on a bit. And then finally, a guy where she said, I'm giving you a piece of advice.

[38:30]

And I went, go. I don't know what happened. And then he suggested that I chant the Heart Sutra while I was sitting dozing. And I thought, oh boy, you know, I mean, how corny can you get? But I tried it out. I think it was about two weeks after that, one day, you know, this is located in my chest. And one day I was doing Tinhyin and I was very angry.

[39:39]

I used to wake up in the morning and first of all the wake-up bell would ring and I'd be angry about being awoken by the wake-up bell. And then I'd be angry about getting out of bed. And then I'd be angry about how cold the water was when I washed my face. And then I'd be angry about how cold my clothes were when I got into them. And, you know, if you're angry, you don't need much of an excuse. Almost anything will do. You don't have to look very far. So I was doing, a couple of weeks later, I was doing Tinhyin one morning and it was quite cold. This was a spring breakfast thing. And I was doing Tinhyin and I let go of the anger. And I thought, oh, that's interesting. Let me try that again. So I got angry and then I let go of it.

[40:43]

I got angry and I let go of it. This is fun. And then I let go of it and right away I got really sad. Which is interesting. It's one of the characteristics, I think, of anger that it's a defense against sadness and the pain of one's life. And it was also the sadness of knowing that, after all, I'm responsible. I can't just say, now I'm responsible for my anger. I can't just say, oh, well, I was just overcome with anger. You know, I'm not an angry person. I don't have anything to do with that. You know, it just comes along. It overwhelms me. I can't do anything about it. And once I found out I could do something about it, of course,

[41:46]

I suddenly had this responsibility to take care of my anger. Suzuki Roshi, when I was angry for probably a good, oh, between one and two years, my friend who was here, who I went to college with, he worked with me in the kitchen. He came to visit me one time for a few days and ended up staying for about a year and a half. In the old days, you know, you could do things like that. One day he said he was so embarrassed because I got so angry in the kitchen,

[42:47]

and that was, you know, the old kitchen, and I went outside into the deck that was there, which is now Olympic Pit. I went outside onto the deck there, and I used to wear glasses, so I took my glasses off, and I carefully set my glasses down someplace, and then I knelt down on the deck and beat my fist onto the deck and screamed and yelled or something like that. He said it was so embarrassing that, not that you would get angry like that, but that you would put your glasses down first. So I made up for that another time when I got angry at somebody in the kitchen. I took off my glasses and threw them apart the kitchen. And so there was a lot of anxiety to getting everything done. Then I said, cut it in thirds. And then I went about my business, and a little while later I looked back,

[43:55]

and this person was cutting it in thirds lengthwise. And I said, cut it in thirds. Rather laboriously and carefully, you know, I said, this is dope. This is awesome. I just flipped out. She was being so incredibly careful and sincere and dedicated to the task. I'm not sure. It may have been when I threw my glasses. I can't remember.

[44:55]

After a while I stopped wearing them. They used to get all foggy working in the kitchen. One day I took them off and put them back on. That was about 15 years ago. Isn't that so much the way things happen? Here I am thinking, how can anybody be so dumb? And boy, isn't she stupid and things like that, and getting angry. And she's making such a good effort to do what's asked of her.

[45:58]

And originally they were friends. I say originally, but we all inhabit the same body after all. But anyway, so these things that arise, dragons and fishes and angry person and sincere person,

[47:14]

none of them stay. And none of them can be depended upon. Maybe it's like spring and summer. Spring and autumn, Dogen said, so if you want spring and autumn to be different than they are, remember that they can only be as they are. And if you want spring and autumn to stay as they are, remember that they have no unchanging nature. So whatever this place is, where you live,

[48:52]

what you will do for a place to sit, and you can look around inside. One time when I was in the kitchen, I was working very hard. I think my working hard always had some touch of trying to prove something about the kind of person I was.

[50:00]

I'm a kind of person who works really hard and accomplishes a lot of the people who thought. Anyway, I was working and I was pretty involved in a lot of kind of emotional turmoil. And you know, at the same time putting all the emotional turmoil into work, whatever it was I was doing. And I heard, at some point I heard my name. Somebody was calling my name. At least they were saying, Ed, Ed. It was someone that I didn't know.

[51:08]

Even though it was my name being called, it took me a while to realize that that person was calling me. Because it was someone, the person they were calling wasn't disturbed, didn't have any emotional turmoil. The person they were calling was a very wonderful person, a very warm, a warm and a kind person. A warm and kind and considerate person. I was rather startled. And I realized that I was that person too. It was like clouds.

[52:12]

The blue sky in the poem, the blue sky opens up farther and farther, reminding me of this. Because it was like clouds, like all these storm clouds, dark, dark clouds suddenly being dispersed in all this blue sky, opening up farther and farther. Suzuki Roshi had come to the kitchen. He wanted to ask me something. I don't remember what he wanted to ask me. I don't remember what he wanted to ask me.

[53:49]

I don't remember what he wanted to ask me. I don't remember what he wanted to ask me. I appreciate the effort to sit inside and find the flowers in your own body. It's a practice that you can, I actually depend on. It's a practice that you can, I actually depend on.

[55:08]

I pray in every being and place, with the true merit of Buddha's name, I pray in every being and place, with the true merit of Buddha's name, I pray in every being and place, with the true merit of Buddha's name, Sengen beings are numberless. I vow to save them. Sengen beings are numberless. I vow to save them.

[56:13]

The Dharma's are boundless. I vow to master them. The Buddha's way is unsurpassable. I vow to attain it. The Buddha's way is unsurpassable. I vow to attain it. The two-day meeting probably wants to address exactly the kind of thing you're talking about

[57:19]

in a way that everyone can hear, so, you know, hear that more. But that means going. That means going. I wonder if people want to talk more about the two-day meeting now, and Peter had a specific idea as an alternative. Do you want to respond to that now, or just think about what's been already expressed and go on to some of the other things that are on the agenda? I'd like to take some reading. So, does anyone want to respond to that? I just have a question. Is there a time limit on this meeting, or it doesn't end this meeting? Are we going to stop tonight? I think that clock is the end time, so it's 20 minutes from now.

[58:24]

It's the usual ending time for general meetings. Yes, Stu. I don't care particularly one way or the other, but I'd like to point out that the people who asked that the exercise period be discussed have been waiting for three meetings now. Dan, did you have something to say? I just wanted to support what Peter said. I think that at least talking about having something in the interim or some follow-up, even if some of us do go up to this meeting, if we go to the meeting and then come back and that's it, and we don't follow it up ourselves here, then it doesn't seem to make much sense to go to this meeting. So maybe some people could go to this meeting, and we could also have something here. Okay, so we have exercise period and summer vacation and severance meals.

[59:32]

Those are things that were written down on the agenda pad. So, exercise period. I was wondering what the staff discussed in regards to the exercise period. Maybe someone else. I can't remember all the discussion. It's pretty clear that 15 minutes is long enough to have much exercise. And there was some question of was anybody actually working until 4.45, or did everybody pretty much get to stop working at 4.30 whether they were exercising or not. And would making it longer to set a period mean that... The thought about that was that it seemed like there weren't very many people working until 4.45.

[60:40]

It was. If we shorten work more, then of course, as it is, the work period is pretty short. The staff was hesitant to shorten the work period further. It seemed like we might consider having a shorter break after dinner and having a longer period for exercise. If you didn't work at the same time and have a longer exercise period and a shorter break after dinner. A longer bathroom, does that go with that? Or just have a longer bathroom. I guess one of the ideas was that the staff... I think the preference was to just have work ended at a certain time.

[61:41]

And people could do exercise or bath or whatever the heck they wanted to do. Rather than thinking about some people get to stop work because they want to exercise and other people have to keep working because they don't feel like exercising. Or they'd like to work or something. Still, I suppose people aren't working. But there seemed to be my recollection that there was a preference to have work end at a certain time. So, it seemed like... But also that the work already is pretty short. So, one possibility was to shorten the break after dinner. And just have a longer time off after work. I think there was a suggestion of not having a tea in the afternoon. Maybe that's another... the summertime not having a tea in the afternoon. I can't remember the rest. Other than that, I can't remember the discussion.

[62:42]

I think we... considering all the factors, we just decided that... to stay with the schedule the way it is. Right? Bernhard? We're going to talk about adjournment. Bernhard, and then... Well, I just had a question. Does that mean moving dinner back? Having... moving the time of dinner back, having it shorter? Dinner would be a little bit later. And one of the problems about that is then how does the kitchen get to us and so on, so... And, of course, what comes up is we just start, you know, talking about exercise periods and then there's people who want to do yoga and then... And, you know, how do we accommodate everything? How possible is it to accommodate everything in the schedule? And so on, so... And at some point, we're just looking at it like, Gosh, how do we... It's not going to be possible for us to accommodate everything in the schedule.

[63:46]

That's it. Well, I think after that statement, it should be pretty clear that this has so many complications and implications and it's probably not so useful to discuss it in this round here. So I would suggest that we just ask for alternative models for the schedule, which includes the whole day and takes in consideration the amount of work we have to do and so forth and so on. And just collect them on the yellow pad and everybody can look at it just because it takes so much time to explain it all. A longer exercise period involves the whole day from morning to the evening. Some people can seek out some things and write them all down and then we can look at them and then later we can evaluate them. It assumes that we all here want a longer exercise period.

[64:49]

But those who want longer, they can make a proposal. But that makes a lot of sense because that seems like a good idea to me because to just say, well, gee, can't we have a longer exercise period? It's a much more creative way to say, well, sure, make up a schedule. Maybe you can come up with one. But also, we also all have to be responsible, have some feeling of responsibility for the work that gets done in the kitchen, going to Zazen in the evening. And when you start to think about all of those things, it ain't so easy to do. But that's a good way to approach it, I think. Klaus, David, Jeffrey, Doug, and Dan. David, Joe, too. It's like it's really the last topic of the night. I'd simply like to say that I don't think I like the idea of having a break after dinner.

[65:49]

One thing, oftentimes the daughters are doing cheating afterwards. Also, this is the only time during the day I can get some extra reading done because I fall asleep during the study. But it's a nice time to do some reading. There's an hour after dinner and it seems to be quiet. So I'd rather have time than exercise time. I'm not an exerciser anyway. Also, in general, I think we should know our priorities down here at Tassajara. Do we want to do exercise here or do we want to sit Zazen and study? People who want to do vigorous exercise, I think maybe they can do them on the day off. That's hot. I quite agree that we should see the priorities of what we want to do here.

[66:51]

And the reason I like to exercise once in a while is that it helps me a lot to stay awake and clear. It's what happens. It's impossible to do that in 15 minutes. You get a head of steam, which seems to be necessary. Get your head of steam clean. Therefore, I propose the following. Combine the three 15-minute exercise periods per week that we have into one 45-minute exercise period on the second day of the week. And people who want to exercise can go and exercise. And people who don't want to can continue working. Everybody would stop work at the same time every other day.

[67:56]

That would provide the possibility of exercising to a significant degree of heart and lung capacity. Every two or three days, which from my understanding of exercise is kind of a minimum to keep that kind of health in the body. Which to me happens to be quite important. Okay, we've heard a couple of different priority schedules and one concrete suggestion. Okay, who's next? Was it Jeffrey? Doug? I think it was Doug, Ben, and then somebody else over here? Okay. Well, I think Bernhard's suggestion is a way of getting out the problem in a more general way.

[69:05]

Personally, I've been trying for three practice periods to work out some sort of exercise schedule for myself. And I've pretty much decided there's no way to do it. Other than to become really creative. So I've decided to stop eating supper so I can do that on my own. But I think that it's not, I don't deal with the sense of resignation. There's no way else of doing it. I feel, like Klaus, that there is a sense of priority of what's going on in your chest and heart. And I feel like making myself more available to those priorities that have been set up. Because I feel they're quite important. Sitting and studying, and also working. My one feeling about how it's presently being conducted is that I constantly feel strange. Working in the shop at about quarter to ten before I start thinking about how to wrap things up.

[70:14]

So that I can be in my cabinet at 4.30 to do one headstand. And while other people, as I pass to my cabinet, are busy working. I constantly feel uncomfortable with that. Maybe that's something that I should feel uncomfortable about. Or not, I don't know. I haven't worked that out. I don't know. Beyond that, it's just a lot of personal feelings. I just like to support what Bernhard said as a suggestion. That we put out a pad and people can make suggestions. But I feel like, I don't know. You give up certain things when you come to Tassel Heart. And I don't know if exercising to your heart's content is, in a year and a half or two year period, Tassel Heart is going to jeopardize your life or not. As far as it being healthy or not.

[71:16]

I was going to suggest something like what David suggested. It seems to me that 15 minute a day periods are pretty meaningless. And that if we had one once a week, a 30 minute or a 45 minute period, that would make a lot more sense if you could actually exercise. And the rest of the time people would be working. Well, I agree that we should make suggestions. I just wanted to say, when I hear a large block of time, my priority is not exercise, but that I feel like I need extra sleep. So, you might see me lying about taking a nap, and I would feel like that was my exercise or something. I don't know. For me, it's exercise that is important. But I also feel in a way that we should end work all at the same time. And I feel like maybe somewhat the problem is feeling like you have 15 minute block exercise that's written on a schedule.

[72:25]

Makes you feel like you're stuck to that. Whereas if you say work is over at 4.30, you actually have till 5.15 almost. 45 minutes to bathe or exercise or whatever you want. And there's 40 minutes after lunch that people use. I don't know that's taken out as free time. So, we've heard suggestions. Oh, Joe, go ahead. I also like what Aaron suggested. But I don't think it goes far enough. We have this shelf and it collects various suggestions. Where do we go from here? I think that these kind of meetings we come up with various times when we have various kinds of issues and make some to deal with them. We share various kinds of solutions. So, with this kind of issue, I think to start out with a yellow pad is fine. But we need to think about some way to keep going to a resolution.

[73:29]

Keep going to a final schedule change. If that's what we want. So, I really like the yellow pad idea. I can see something else. I can see us think about steps after that. Such as maybe the staff taking the yellow pad and thinking up some way to thinking up what the crucial issues are. And then let's say we're just asking for a show of hands on those key issues. And the schedule change after that. It seems like we need more than just a yellow pad. Well, I was thinking with this yellow pad not having random things like longer exercise periods or less tea or something.

[74:40]

But only very concrete models that run from wake up bell to good night bell. And then we could just make a deadline at some point. And then we could give a number of days time so that people can sign their name on their preferred model. And I would like to encourage. It comes going through my head. We are rethinking the schedule to think about the sleep. I'm not sure enough to. Well, I wasn't sure enough so far to propose it. But it's going through my head. How about sleep? Maybe if people come up with some notions and have the same ones. Thank you. To us the last practice period, I often didn't make it to the baths until 5 o'clock or 5 after 5.

[75:49]

And I had to be a little bit brisk in washing. But I don't think I miss service. And so I'm not sure why people say that they only have 15 minutes to exercise. Actually a half hour. And. Something else I was going to say, I forget it. Go ahead. Well, this is really personal. But since I was the one who request something to do. I. It took me a real long time to start exercising. And a real long time in life to start exercising with any regularity. And but once I did, I could tell how much difference it made just for me. I'm not trying to sell it to other people who don't exercise.

[76:53]

But I'm really afraid that since it took me so long to start doing it. That if I get out of the habit, which I pretty much am now. It will be very difficult once I leave the bath. So it's just, it's completely selfish. Anyway, but I really feel much better when I get a lot of vigorous exercise. And when I put that request on the agenda originally. My thought was 10 minutes more. Which would give you time to put your work stuff away. Change your clothes. Put on my shoes. And actually start exercising at 4.30. And then if you ran or walked or whatever for 25 or 30 minutes. You'd have 15 minutes to bathe. And again, this is really, it's really personal. But in the winter time, when it's real cold. The only way I can warm up is to get in the steam room.

[77:55]

Because I have a chill. So if I jump in the plunge, it really does me in. In the winter time, I would take a bath and go in the steam room. Until I got warm enough to last through the night. So you know, I'm hearing this strictly from my own point of view. But anyway, since Steve gave his lecture about me time. Since the staff talked about this exercise issue. At length at that staff meeting. And I talked to Connie about it afterwards. And she very clearly explained to me all the implications. Which I had never thought about. And I felt like I just opened up a can of worms. And then since Steve's lecture about me time. I thought about it a whole lot again. And I pretty much decided that I just have to somehow work it out for myself. But I can think real fast about a way to get 10 minutes more. And that is to, instead of bringing the end of work bill in the morning at 11.25.

[78:57]

Bring it in at 11.30. Instead of starting work meeting at, afternoon work meeting at 1.30. Start it at 1.25. And everybody stops work at 4.20. And people want to exercise. People want to take a long bath. Take a 20 minute nap or whatever. Or read for 20 minutes. And I'll write you an audio. But, I mean, you've heard what I had to say. You know, I've been here four months. And I want to keep exercising. Maybe I'll start again later. I think, yeah, it's 9 o'clock. So maybe we should wind this up. Somebody keeps saying it's 9 o'clock. Would you like to say anything? Please. Okay. Well, I still have a closing entry. One is that I have several issues.

[80:00]

I feel, I'd like to say that I was very interested in David's proposal. But it seems to make sense to me. But also, at the end of the meeting we were talking about the baths. And there seemed to be a lot of interest in the process. And I think the reason why we haven't been listening to it is because nobody has been responding. And it's hard to think a lot about the baths. If you're following the schedule here. I know I've been pretty much involved in them. Spend all my evening breaks working on the baths or drawing up plans or thinking about it. It's a lot of work. I got tired of it after a long time. I stopped doing it. But there seems to be more interest now. There is interest now. People would be interested in having some sort of meeting like on a day off or something. Or some time to think about the baths. And then present something to the city that they can work with.

[81:02]

Because if it's just one person's response to a request for information or input. Then it's sort of easy for them to go ahead and make their own plans. Because they have nothing to relate to. And they're sort of removed. Because the idea of the baths is just an image they remember from years past. And they were here. So if people are interested in that way they can speak to me. We can try to work something out for some input. If there's enough people interested it wouldn't necessarily have to be on a day off. You have to figure out how they want to do it. It sounds like a good idea to have a meeting with people who would like to participate in that plan. As far as the process goes for the exercise here. The yellow pad will be out for people to write down their suggestions as to specific schedule changes.

[82:04]

And I know there are people here who are interested in seeing the schedule change. And also there are people who are interested in not seeing the schedule change. Somehow I feel staff will have to weigh both sides of that question. And try and come up with a solution. Helped by everybody. Arrived at with everyone's input. Does anyone else have anything to say? No, it's fine. Just take a vote. Take a vote. Well before I take a vote, does anyone have any objection to that process taking place? Okay, so can I have a show of hands of people who at this point... What are our other categories? The options are, I am interested now in going up to the meeting.

[83:14]

Second one is, I am not interested in going up to the meeting. Third one is, I am undecided. Okay? So the first one, people who are interested in going up to the meeting. Interested or willing to. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13. Okay. And people who are not interested in going. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. And people who are undecided at this point. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you.

[84:27]

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